Muslims For A Safe America conducted a survey at the Islamic Society of North America’s 43rd Annual Convention in Chicago from September 1, 2006 to September 4, 2006.

307 Muslims (men and women of a wide range of ages, races, ethnicities, and national origins) who are American citizens participated in the survey at the Muslims For A Safe America booth at ISNA.

The purpose of the survey was to better understand the views of American Muslims on issues relating to American national security. It is important to let American Muslims articulate their varied opinions on these issues in order to encourage dialogue within the American Muslim community and with the rest of American society.

Although this was not a scientific survey, because ISNA Convention attendees who visited the Muslims For A Safe America booth are not necessarily representative of the American Muslim community as a whole, the validity of the results has been supported by other scientific surveys.

Furthermore, the same survey was conducted at the Muslim American Society/Islamic Circle of North America Annual Convention in Dearborn in December 2006. Results at ISNA and MAS/ICNA were similar in terms of percentages.

The responses from the 2006 ISNA Convention are as follows:

1. Are you a U.S. Citizen? (If no, then don’t fill out survey.)
YES 307 (100%)
NO 0 (0%)

2. Do you consider yourself to be a Muslim first, an American first, or both equally?
MUSLIM FIRST 214 (70%)
AMERICAN FIRST 4 (1%)
BOTH EQUALLY 86 (28%)
DID NOT ANSWER 3 (1%)

3. Is the American government at war with the religion of Islam?
YES 208 (68%)
NO 79 (26%)
DID NOT ANSWER 20 (7%)

4. Can a good Muslim be a good American?
YES 292 (95%)
NO 11 (4%)
DID NOT ANSWER 4 (1%)

5. Did Muslims hijack planes and fly them into buildings on 9/11?
YES 117 (38%)
NO 139 (45%)
DID NOT ANSWER 51 (17%)

6. Did the U.S. government have advance knowledge of the 9/11 attacks, and allow the attacks to occur?
YES 200 (65%)
NO 70 (23%)
DID NOT ANSWER 37 (12%)

7. Did the U.S. government organize the 9/11 attacks?
YES 106 (35%)
NO 151 (49%)
DID NOT ANSWER 50 (16%)

8. Are the tapes of Osama Bin Laden, claiming responsibility for the 9/11 attacks and threatening future attacks, real or fake?
REAL 126 (41%)
FAKE 129 (42%)
DID NOT ANSWER 52 (17%)

9. Did Muslims commit the July 2005 train and bus bombings in London?
YES 140 (46%)
NO 104 (34%)
DID NOT ANSWER 63 (21%)

10. The Canadian government says it stopped a plot by Canadian Muslims in June 2006 to attack targets in Canada. Do you believe there was a real plot by Muslims?
YES 61 (20%)
NO 202 (66%)
DID NOT ANSWER 44 (14%)

11. The British government says it stopped a plot by British Muslims in August 2006 to bomb planes flying to America. Do you believe there was a real plot by Muslims?
YES 66 (21%)
NO 191 (62%)
DID NOT ANSWER 50 (16%)

12. Is Al Qaeda a real organization, operated by Muslims who are trying to attack America?
YES 149 (49%)
NO 109 (36%)
DID NOT ANSWER 49 (15%)

13. Is Al Qaeda attacking America because Al Qaeda hates American freedoms?
YES 17 (6%)
NO 269 (88%)
DID NOT ANSWER 21 (6%)

14. Is Al Qaeda attacking America because Al Qaeda hates American involvement in the Muslim world?
YES 228 (74%)
NO 54 (18%)
DID NOT ANSWER 25 (8%)

15. Is it justifiable for the U.S. government to do any of the following in an attempt to prevent terrorist attacks in America:

a. taking religion and ethnicity into account as one factor when deciding whom to interview and search at airports?
YES 37 (12%)
NO 258 (84%)
DID NOT ANSWER 12 (4%)

b. monitoring activities at American mosques?
YES 43 (14%)
NO 255 (83%)
DID NOT ANSWER 9 (3%)

c. listening to phone calls of people in America whom the government claims are connected in some way with Al Qaeda?
YES 64 (21%)
NO 232 (76%)
DID NOT ANSWER 11 (3%)

d. having an informer pretend to support or encourage violence against America, to see if the targeted Muslims will decide to attack American targets?
YES 35 (11%)
NO 258 (84%)
DID NOT ANSWER 14 (5%)

e. monitoring Muslim charities in America, in the hopes of preventing funding for possible terrorist attacks?
YES 52 (17%)
NO 242 (79%)
DID NOT ANSWER 13 (4%)

f. focusing Immigration & Customs Enforcement resources on deporting Muslim illegal aliens, who have not been convicted of terrorism, in the hopes of disrupting possible Al Qaeda attacks?
YES 29 (9%)
NO 263 (86%)
DID NOT ANSWER 15 (5%)

g. allowing Muslim illegal aliens to stay in America if they agree to work as informants, monitoring the Muslim community for the government?
YES 21 (7%)
NO 277 (90%)
DID NOT ANSWER 9 (3%)

h. torturing suspected Al Qaeda members to get information about possible planned attacks?
YES 14 (5%)
NO 278 (91%)
DID NOT ANSWER 15 (4%)

16. Do you believe that your local mosque is being monitored by wiretaps, government agents, or informants?
YES 227 (74%)
NO 59 (19%)
DID NOT ANSWER 21 (7%)

17. Do you believe that your personal phone calls are being listened to, or that your personal mail or email is being read, by the U.S. government?
YES 205 (67%)
NO 78 (25%)
DID NOT ANSWER 24 (8%)

18. Do you believe that your home is bugged by the U.S. government?
YES 97 (32%)
NO 189 (62%)
DID NOT ANSWER 21 (6%)

19. Do you believe that the U.S. government has secretly searched your home?
YES 43 (14%)
NO 245 (80%)
DID NOT ANSWER 19 (6%)

20. If you, or a member of your family, have been questioned by the federal government at any time after 9/11, how were you treated during the interview?
TREATED WELL 65 (21%)
TREATED BADLY 25 (8%)
DID NOT ANSWER 217 (71%)

21. Should Iran develop nuclear weapons?
YES 161 (52%)
NO 123 (40%)
DID NOT ANSWER 23 (8%)

22. Should America attack Iran to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons?
YES 10 (3%)
NO 292 (95%)
DID NOT ANSWER 5 (2%)

23. Was America justified in invading Iraq in 2003?
YES 8 (3%)
NO 294 (96%)
DID NOT ANSWER 5 (2%)

24. Should American troops leave Iraq immediately, or stay there until the Iraqi government and Iraqi military are stronger?
LEAVE NOW 199 (65%)
LEAVE LATER 86 (28%)
DID NOT ANSWER 22 (7%)

25. Was America justified in invading Afghanistan after 9/11?
YES 51 (17%)
NO 248 (81%)
DID NOT ANSWER 8 (3%)

26. Is violence by Muslims against American civilians acceptable, in retaliation for the American government’s actions in the Muslim world?
YES 23 (7%)
NO 274 (89%)
DID NOT ANSWER 10 (3%)

27. Is violence by Muslims against the American military overseas acceptable, in retaliation for the American government’s actions in the Muslim world?
YES 134 (44%)
NO 154 (50%)
DID NOT ANSWER 19 (6%)

28. Is violence by Muslims against the American military in the U.S. acceptable, in retaliation for the American government’s actions in the Muslim world?
YES 73 (24%)
NO 211 (69%)
DID NOT ANSWER 23 (7%)

29. Is violence by Muslims against American government officials acceptable, in retaliation for the American government’s actions in the Muslim world?
YES 51 (17%)
NO 231 (75%)
DID NOT ANSWER 25 (8%)

30. If you learned about a plot by Muslims to attack targets inside America, would you tell law enforcement authorities?
YES 234 (76%)
NO 39 (13%)
DID NOT ANSWER 34 (11%)

These survey results (above) are based on 307 responses from American Muslims (Muslims who are U.S. citizens) who visited the booth of Muslims for A Safe America during 2006 ISNA Annual Convention.

The same survey was conducted at the Muslim American Society/Islamic Circle of North America’s Annual Convention in Dearborn from December 23, 2006 to December 24, 2006.

48 Muslims who are American citizens participated in the survey at the Muslims For A Safe America booth at MAS/ICNA.

The results, which were similar (in terms of percentages) to the results at the ISNA Convention, are as follows:

1. Are you a U.S. Citizen? (If no, then don’t fill out survey.)
YES 48 (100%)
NO 0 (0%)

2. Do you consider yourself to be a Muslim first, an American first, or both equally?
MUSLIM FIRST 35 (73%)
AMERICAN FIRST 2 (4%)
BOTH EQUALLY 10 (21%)
DID NOT ANSWER 1 (2%)

3. Is the American government at war with the religion of Islam?
YES 32 (67%)
NO 15 (31%)
DID NOT ANSWER 1 (2%)

4. Can a good Muslim be a good American?
YES 46 (96%)
NO 2 (4%)
DID NOT ANSWER 0 (0%)

5. Did Muslims hijack planes and fly them into buildings on 9/11?
YES 14 (29%)
NO 32 (67%)
DID NOT ANSWER 2 (4%)

6. Did the U.S. government have advance knowledge of the 9/11 attacks, and allow the attacks to occur?
YES 28 (58%)
NO 13 (27%)
DID NOT ANSWER 7 (15%)

7. Did the U.S. government organize the 9/11 attacks?
YES 19 (40%)
NO 19 (40%)
DID NOT ANSWER 10 (20%)

8. Are the tapes of Osama Bin Laden, claiming responsibility for the 9/11 attacks and threatening future attacks, real or fake?
REAL 16 (33%)
FAKE 23 (48%)
DID NOT ANSWER 9 (19%)

9. Did Muslims commit the July 2005 train and bus bombings in London?
YES 16 (33%)
NO 21 (44%)
DID NOT ANSWER 11 (23%)

10. The Canadian government says it stopped a plot by Canadian Muslims in June 2006 to attack targets in Canada. Do you believe there was a real plot by Muslims?
YES 6 (13%)
NO 30 (63%)
DID NOT ANSWER 12 (24%)

11. The British government says it stopped a plot by British Muslims in August 2006 to bomb planes flying to America. Do you believe there was a real plot by Muslims?
YES 4 (8%)
NO 36 (75%)
DID NOT ANSWER 8 (17%)

12. Is Al Qaeda a real organization, operated by Muslims who are trying to attack America?
YES 25 (52%)
NO 23 (48%)
DID NOT ANSWER 0 (0%)

13. Is Al Qaeda attacking America because Al Qaeda hates American freedoms?
YES 5 (10%)
NO 40 (83%)
DID NOT ANSWER 3 (7%)

14. Is Al Qaeda attacking America because Al Qaeda hates American involvement in the Muslim world?
YES 34 (71%)
NO 9 (19%)
DID NOT ANSWER 5 (10%)

15. Is it justifiable for the U.S. government to do any of the following in an attempt to prevent terrorist attacks in America:

a. taking religion and ethnicity into account as one factor when deciding whom to interview and search at airports?
YES 9 (19%)
NO 37 (77%)
DID NOT ANSWER 2 (4%)

b. monitoring activities at American mosques?
YES 8 (17%)
NO 38 (79%)
DID NOT ANSWER 2 (4%)

c. listening to phone calls of people in America whom the government claims are connected in some way with Al Qaeda?
YES 9 (19%)
NO 37 (77%)
DID NOT ANSWER 2 (4%)

d. having an informer pretend to support or encourage violence against America, to see if the targeted Muslims will decide to attack American targets?
YES 8 (17%)
NO 38 (79%)
DID NOT ANSWER 2 (4%)

e. monitoring Muslim charities in America, in the hopes of preventing funding for possible terrorist attacks?
YES 12 (25%)
NO 34 (71%)
DID NOT ANSWER 2 (4%)

f. focusing Immigration & Customs Enforcement resources on deporting Muslim illegal aliens, who have not been convicted of terrorism, in the hopes of disrupting possible Al Qaeda attacks?
YES 7 (15%)
NO 36 (75%)
DID NOT ANSWER 5 (10%)

g. allowing Muslim illegal aliens to stay in America if they agree to work as informants, monitoring the Muslim community for the government?
YES 5 (10%)
NO 38 (79%)
DID NOT ANSWER 5 (11%)

h. torturing suspected Al Qaeda members to get information about possible planned attacks?
YES 8 (17%)
NO 37 (77%)
DID NOT ANSWER 3 (6%)

16. Do you believe that your local mosque is being monitored by wiretaps, government agents, or informants?
YES 34 (71%)
NO 12 (25%)
DID NOT ANSWER 2 (4%)

17. Do you believe that your personal phone calls are being listened to, or that your personal mail or email is being read, by the U.S. government?
YES 28 (58%)
NO 14 (29%)
DID NOT ANSWER 6 (13%)

18. Do you believe that your home is bugged by the U.S. government?
YES 15 (31%)
NO 29 (60%)
DID NOT ANSWER 4 (9%)

19. Do you believe that the U.S. government has secretly searched your home?
YES 9 (19%)
NO 36 (75%)
DID NOT ANSWER 3 (6%)

20. If you, or a member of your family, have been questioned by the federal government at any time after 9/11, how were you treated during the interview?
TREATED WELL 10 (21%)
TREATED BADLY 2 (4%)
DID NOT ANSWER 36 (75%)

21. Should Iran develop nuclear weapons?
YES 26 (54%)
NO 16 (33%)
DID NOT ANSWER 6 (13%)

22. Should America attack Iran to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons?
YES 5 (10%)
NO 40 (83%)
DID NOT ANSWER 3 (7%)

23. Was America justified in invading Iraq in 2003?
YES 3 (6%)
NO 42 (88%)
DID NOT ANSWER 3 (6%)

24. Should American troops leave Iraq immediately, or stay there until the Iraqi government and Iraqi military are stronger?
LEAVE NOW 34 (71%)
LEAVE LATER 9 (19%)
DID NOT ANSWER 5 (10%)

25. Was America justified in invading Afghanistan after 9/11?
YES 2 (4%)
NO 38 (79%)
DID NOT ANSWER 8 (17%)

26. Is violence by Muslims against American civilians acceptable, in retaliation for the American government’s actions in the Muslim world?
YES 5 (10%)
NO 39 (81%)
DID NOT ANSWER 4 (9%)

27. Is violence by Muslims against the American military overseas acceptable, in retaliation for the American government’s actions in the Muslim world?
YES 18 (38%)
NO 26 (54%)
DID NOT ANSWER 4 (8%)

28. Is violence by Muslims against the American military in the U.S. acceptable, in retaliation for the American government’s actions in the Muslim world?
YES 6 (13%)
NO 40 (83%)
DID NOT ANSWER 2 (4%)

29. Is violence by Muslims against American government officials acceptable, in retaliation for the American government’s actions in the Muslim world?
YES 6 (13%)
NO 38 (79%)
DID NOT ANSWER 4 (8%)

30. If you learned about a plot by Muslims to attack targets inside America, would you tell law enforcement authorities?
YES 37 (77%)
NO 8 (17%)
DID NOT ANSWER 3 (6%)

This second set of survey results is based on 48 responses from American Muslims (Muslims who are U.S. citizens) who visited the booth of Muslims for A Safe America during 2006 MAS/ICNA Annual Convention.

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161 Responses to National Security Survey Conducted At 2006 American Muslim Conventions
  1. this was informative, i hope it’s not fake data created either by the american govt. or by muslims trying to create disinformation… just kidding… i think this is authentic but i guess i’ll have to do some further research

  2. Abu Noor al-Irlandee September 19, 2006 at 3:19 am Reply

    Mr. Wade,

    I don’t think these results were skewed to fulfill any purpose.

    At the same time, this was not a random sample so the results reflect a certain segment of the Muslim community…those that might attend the ISNA convention and volunteer to fill out such a survey.

    As a Muslim, I think many of the results are fairly remarkable, but I have my own biases and I am not shocked by any of the results since I am familiar with discussion in the community.

    I would think (but I could be wrong) that many non-Muslims would be shocked by some of the results, and would love to hear reactions of non-Muslims, both those familiar and not so familiar with the Muslim community.

    May God reward Kamran and everyone else who assisted with this project. Honest discussion of these issues is quite difficult for many Muslims right now, and I think allowing open honest discussion is in the best interests of everyone so I hope that Muslims for a Safe America continues to promote such discussion.

  3. Why wasnt this question asked?

    ‘Is the religion of Islam at war with the American government and it’s people ?’

  4. Abu Noor al-Irlandee September 27, 2006 at 8:21 pm Reply

    Steve,

    I can’t answer for why it wasn’t asked, but I can tell you what the answer would be. (most likely).

    I don’t think any Muslim would say the religion of Islam is at war with the American people. Some might say it is at war with the government of U.S., but all of those would say that the war was started by the U.S. government. Most would probably answer your question no.

    Although this might seem illogical to you at first, it actually does make sense.

    A few individuals (or even a few hundred or thousand individuals) doing something cannot fairly be attributed to the “religion of Islam.” Actually, even if every single Muslim did something one can not fairly attribute it to the “religion of Islam.”

    On the other hand, if a few individuals who have authority in the government of the U.S. decide they wish to wage war against the religion of Islam, they can direct all the forces of the U.S. government to do so.

    Peace.

  5. Abu Noor al-Irlandee September 27, 2006 at 8:28 pm Reply

    So, just to be clear Steve, if you want to say that there are some Muslims who are at war with the American government, undoubtedly you are correct. Even if you want to say that some Muslims are at war with the American people, that is also true.

    I know that most Americans think that those Muslims started this war. If you look at the history this is not true. And it is also not true that this war was started because Muslims cannot accept Americans being ‘free’ or having a ‘democracy.’

    The grievances started due to American foreign policy, primarily the U.S. government for support of tyrannies in the Muslim world and the U.S. government support of Israel.

    The spark that lit the fire was the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia — Gulf War I.

    There are many books those who wish to understand what happened can read to understand this.

    This is not to say whether those Muslims at war with the American people are correct or justified and it is certainly not to agree with their tactics, some of which are against the teachings of Islam.

    God the Most High knows best.

  6. The results of this survey are chilling – especially considering that these views are held by American citizens. How can there be any hope for the Muslim world when so many refuse to face these unpleasant facts about Islam’s extremist elements? There was a time, long ago, when the spread of Islam heralded learning, tolerance and enlightenment. Now all it seems to offer is a new dark age, along with an ocean of blood, ignorance and severed heads. I can only pray that the God our peoples share will not permit it.

  7. As an American Muslim, I find these results terrifying. Why do so many Muslims present themselves as paranoid, ill-informed individuals? While it is certainly true that the community has endured many injustices since September 11th, it is also unequivocally true that men with a grossly misinformed interpretation of Islam carried out this attack. The only way to prevent further injustices, both by and against the Muslim community, is to face up to past wrongs and educate ourselves so that we can shape a better future.

  8. >30. If you learned about a plot by Muslims to attack targets >inside America, would you tell law enforcement authorities?
    >YES 234
    >NO 39

    39 persons said NO. Now that’s scary…!

  9. As-Salaamu-Aleikum, Sarah:

    I’m with you 100%. What is even scarier is how many non-Muslim Americans are paranoid and scared.

    I think that to put this survey in the proper context, it should be conducted in other countries as well. I wonder what the reaction would be if Muslims in other countries were asked if they considered themselves to be Muslims first or members of the following nationalities, Muslims, or both: UK, Pakistan, Saudi, Germany, France, Turkey, etc. I think the results of such a survey would come as a major revelation to we Muslims, and to Americans as well and put some of these results in their proper context. Equally useful would be asking Christians and Jews what their priorities are – because without context this survey question is simply alarmist.

    I think it is well past the time that we knock off the denial and recognize that Muslim extremists, like any other extremists, do pose a threat to human beings. We need to remember and be aware that as long as we are silent about the extremists and their murders, our silence is taken as assent or agreement with their actions. Many people say we shouldn’t “wash our dirty laundry in public” – the reality is our dirty laundry is now spread all over the world and stinking to high heaven.

    What bothers me as an American Muslim is the number of people who expect the US and the American people to cater them while refusing to recognize that extremists kill; don’t these people realize that the extremists don’t care whom they kill? Would they be so much in denial if it were their relatives in Jordan, the WTC, or elsewhere who had been murdered?

  10. My next door neighbor has a very large dog. I have visited my neighbor many times and his dog comes up to me and with a weary eye sniffs me up and down and then watches me very carefully until I leave. Now my neighbor and I get along well and have eaten at each others house many times but no matter how many times I visit him the dog goes thru the same routine. His dog has never shown agresstion toward me, but I have seen him go mad toward other people. Now the real problem is this; when anyone ask my neighbor if his dog is mean or dangerous he always says no, but anyone that has seen his dog has a hard time beliveing that the dog is not dangerous and I too know that given the chance the dog would rip you to shreds. All it would take is for you to make a suden movement toward the dogs owner. Because my neighbor loves his dog he cannot see that his dog could be a real danger.
    The world is like that, people cannot see something is dangerous if it is part of their life. Muslims, americans, or any group of people, cannot see any danger in things that they have a personal tie to.
    Until we all can stand back, and look thru the eyes of another man, we will never get along, and we will only hide behind our little circle of living, never really finding peace.

  11. Hi,
    I am a Hindu. There are 150 million muslims in India where 800 people are Hindus. The majority of muslims are peace loving and abide by the law. If there is a virus in a persons body, we attack the virus with medication. It is the same with any group of people. There is a virus in the muslim community. Attack the virus not the body of Islam.

  12. All the ‘peaceful’ talk from Muslims would be fine, if it weren’t for the Koran being a manual for terrorism. Even going as far as to tell it’s followers it is perfectly acceptable to lie to infiltrate the infidels. In the end, it’s either convert to Islam, die by the sword, or pay a tax.

    None of our ‘choices’ appeal to me. If I want the truth about how things ‘really’ are, all I have to do is look at Europe and Great Britain, to see what your ‘normal’ Islam does to a country and a society. As much as I hate to admit it, I don’t think Islam allows itself to ‘play well with others’. I didn’t think that a mindset such as that was possible for such a large group of people, but they have come to ‘prove’ it.

    The way the Muslim community in the US rallied to support the good that we are trying to do for their relatives in the middle east is a good sign that they are no different here than in Europe.

    If Islam is so great, and ‘peaceful’, then why did all these Muslims come here? Go back and help your brothers become something good, rather than the ignorant cave dwellers they been for centuries, rather than trying to change the US into what it isn’t.

  13. If there is a virus in a persons body, we attack the virus with medication.

    Sure … but the carrier of this virus is “Islam” itself!

  14. [...] Muslims for America has a survey of 317 American Muslims. [...]

  15. After looking through this survey, I am even more depressed at the views held by american muslims. I cannot fathom how any sensible muslim can look at the destruction muslims are causing around the world and still not believe that their fellow muslims carried out the 9/11 terrorist acts. It’s not as if 9/11 was an isolated incident. There were terrorist attacks before 9/11 and there were/are terrorist attacks after 9/11. I don’t get why they’re not seeing the pattern here.

    Thousands of muslims showed up for a rally against Israel, but only a small handful showed up for a rally against islamic terrorism.

    As an american, I am saddened that people like me who have been very patient with our muslim population are slowly being dragged to the point where we are forced to lump all Muslims into one group and dismiss them as a hopeless cause.

    We desperately need a miracle here.

  16. [...] Muslims For A Safe America conducted a survey at the Islamic Society of North America’s 43rd Annual Convention in Chicago from September 1, 2006 to September 4, 2006. [...]

  17. This is very disappointing. Somewhere between 10% and 30% of the respondents justify violence; therein lies the problem.

  18. To build on the analogy Lee Stevens presented.

    The potentially vicious dog is the radical element of Islam. The owner is the overall Muslim community. They don’t want to warn their neighbors that their dog has vicious tendencies because he’s a part of the family and they’d hate to have to have him put down. When the dog does bite the neighbor they act shocked and claim he’s never behaved like that before and go so far as to wonder what the neighbor did to provoke the dog.

    When Muslim Americans openly denounce terror, suicide bombing, and beheadings in the name of Islam WITHOUT stopping to ponder just why their dog was provoked into the attack, then we can move forward. Until then, don’t wonder too long why it is that I cross the street to walk on the other side when I see you and your dog walking towards me.

  19. Judging from these responses, it is obvious that Islam is a religion comprised of conspiracy theorists. The very name “American Muslim” is an oxymoron. The two can not coexist. This survey is yet another confirmation as to why there is never an outcry by the Muslim community over autrocities committed in the name of Allah. Quite a nice peaceful religion you got there. I will not submit.

    An American Infidel

  20. The simple and plain fact is that muslims represent a threat to non-muslims worldwide.

    We are reminded by this survey that high percentages of muslims subscribe to conspiracy theories, and blame America for their own status and condition.

    There is nothing to be gained from being “saddened” by this.

    What we as Americans must do is wake up our sleeping media and left wing apologists to a religous cult that threatens us all. Just as the Nazis did.

    For “Abu Noor” to write…

    “I know that most Americans think that those Muslims started this war. If you look at the history this is not true. And it is also not true that this war was started because Muslims cannot accept Americans being ‘free’ or having a ‘democracy.’

    The grievances started due to American foreign policy, primarily the U.S. government for support of tyrannies in the Muslim world and the U.S. government support of Israel.”

    … we must understand that we are subject to being attacked by him and his cult simply for existing, and for stopping them from wiping Israel off the map.

    This guy walks among us.

  21. Lee Stevens:

    I too had an issue with a neighbor that bought a Rottweiler and refused to confine it in a kennel or to a chain. At the time, my son was about 4 and loved to play in the yard. And, of course, my neighbor’s Rottweiler had equal access to my yard as well. My primary responsibility of protecting my son not the feelings of my neighbor. I offered him two choices, either confine his Rottweiler or I would kill it. He chose to sell the animal instead.

    My point is this, our first obligation as a nation, is to provide for the security and well being of our citizens. If this steps of a few toes or hurts a few feelings, I could care less. Islam is a religion in crisis – and surveys like this do little to show that members of that religion feel the same.

    We will be over the hump and “equal” with Muslims when:

    The Koran can be soaked in a jar of urine without the “artist” being murdered.

    When the Muslim world stands shoulder to shoulder with Israelis declaring Israel’s sovereignty and defending them from all enemies.

    When Christian, Muslim, Hindu – all the world’s religions – are welcomed to Saudi Arabia with open arms.

    But, for Islam to continue down it’s current road of radicalization will bring the clash of civilizations countries like Iran seem to crave.

    There is a dog in our neighborhood – both Christian and Muslim – that needs to be reigned in or killed.

  22. If these results are accurate, they are quite disturbing. I hope they don’t represent the North American Muslim population.

  23. Many thanks to Muslims For A Safe America and the Islamic Society of North America for publishing these results. It was very brave to show that the Muslim population poses a serious danger to us all.
    Thank you, keep up the good work.

  24. Let’s see…white Christians in the last half century have:

    *Killed 8 million Gypsies, Jews, and homosexuals for the crime of being born;
    *Invented the most efficient means of death and destruction known to man;
    *Begun numerous wars of choice, including Iraq, which has killed at least half a million Iraqi civilians…

    …and yet it is Muslims who are somehow a threat to the world. What a curious worldview to have.

  25. If 10% of muslims in the US are supportive of terrorism against US civilians, and almost half support violence against the US military overseas, and a quarter supporting it in the US, then we have a problem.

    For normal people planning a crime, getting away with it is the hard part, certainly the hardest part to plan, and often leads to misdeeds being undone. As Islamic terrorists don’t really care about that part, it makes our free society very open to bloodshed.

    With these high numbers, we must either pretty much eliminate our freedoms and have a police state (unacceptable), or we must stop muslims from coming to the US and seriously weed out the ones here.

    Seriously, Imagine standing at customs at the airport, counting off the muslims coming here. “1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, we just let in one probable suicide bombing supporter, and one or two others willing to kill servicemen here, 2 or 3 more who wouldn’t mind seeing our troops abroad get killed.”

    Tell me please, what makes the 6 “normal” muslims we let in worth it?

    We can discriminate against muslims not yet citizens now in self defence, or we can all lose our freedoms. Or face civil war, and trust me, start killing Christians in rural areas, and the game of “Cowboys and Indians” will happen again, and us cowboys will win, even with our gov’t effectivly on the side of the muslims.

  26. Nals,

    Muslims would kill more people and more brutally, if only your nations weren’t so backwards and illiterate. Besides, mulsim armies/mobs seem to prefer brutality to efficiency.

    But regarding wars of choice, how about Muslim agression in Somolia, Sudan, Ethiopia, Spain, Iraq vs Kuwait, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines, Lebanon (civil war), etc?

    If muslims want peace, they need to shut guys like nals up, and replace him with sane people

  27. [quote=Naws Rawlna]Let’s see…white Christians in the last half century have:

    *Killed 8 million Gypsies, Jews, and homosexuals for the crime of being born;
    *Invented the most efficient means of death and destruction known to man;
    *Begun numerous wars of choice, including Iraq, which has killed at least half a million Iraqi civilians…

    …and yet it is Muslims who are somehow a threat to the world. What a curious worldview to have. [/quote]

    Nice strawman there, but you forgot to include President Bush’s mad plan for global domination.

    When the elderly blue-haired ladies begin gathering together to knit bomb vests after church, I might reconsider my allegiance.

  28. These results are disturbing to say the least and only give reason to continue to look at Muslims with suspicion.

    The current situation the world and our nation is dealing with is a direct result of the Muslim population living in a state of denial and never holding those who use their faith as a banner for violence accountable. Until that day happens Muslims will continued to be profiled and continue to be discriminated against, and quite honestly I don’t have a problem with that.

  29. In response to Nals Rawna regarding Christians:

    “*Killed 8 million Gypsies, Jews, and homosexuals for the crime of being born;”

    So Christian = Nazi? Uhh….it is widely known Nazis were utterly pagan to anyone without an agenda to so such lies. If anything, Christians were an unknowing tool of fascism (for a limited time), not a willing accomplice, since by FAR the largest segment of those who sheltered those who would be exterminated were devout Christians. Anyway, since when do Muslims care a hill of beans about Jews anyway? Here I thought Muslims didn’t believe the Holocaust even happened? Go figure…you learn something every day.

    “*Invented the most efficient means of death and destruction known to man;”

    If we both consider our temporal life and death as but a fleeting moment in what will either be an eternity of life or death, perhaps you should focus on which God is a false God, as they are NOT the same. Moreover, I would say those who sow falsehood about the true nature of God do more damage to souls than a world full of nuclear weapons. Besides…who is more apt to use them indiscriminately in near future…America against the Islamic Republic of Iran, or Iran against Israel?

    “*Begun numerous wars of choice, including Iraq, which has killed at least half a million Iraqi civilians…”

    Nice. Keep defending the throat-cutting Taliban, and the murderer of 100s of thousands of Kurds and Shia Muslims by Saddam Hussein, and denounce the sacrificial work of the American military to gain Afghani and Iraqi freedom paid for with the blood of our soldiers. Keep defending the terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan who justify the murder far more Iraqis and Afghanis than members of our own military.

    “…and yet it is Muslims who are somehow a threat to the world. What a curious worldview to have.”

    Americans didn’t fly airplanes into symbols of Islam in the Middle East, killing thousands of innocent people. Then again, you are probably with the majority of Muslims who think Mohammed Atta was an Irish boy from Boston, with a fair complexion and wavy red hair.

    So….how is the boat ride down your river of denial?

  30. Frightening but not surprising. I’m a Jew but am AMERICAN FIRST. Unless one is willing to call themselves AMERICAN FIRST they have no business being in this country. The same goes for Muslims from France, Holland, Italt etc. Anyone who believes that the US Government was behind 9-11 is stupid. FACT.

  31. The somewhat contradictory statistics in the answers to questions 12 and 14, as well as a few of the other questions left me pondering whether or not a large number of the Muslims questioned hold to a belief that I have heard expressed in conversations with both American-Muslims and non-citizen Muslims: That the those who committed the 9-11 attacks are not ‘real’ Muslims, thus using the term ‘Muslim’ to refer to them is a misnomer and makes a question like ‘Did Muslims highjack planes and fly them into buildings on 9/11′ much easier to answer in the negative. I say this not to excuse them (I don’t) but to point out that what appears to be a flat endorsement for conspiracy theories may actually be a matter of using semantics to avoid acknowledging that those who committed the 9/11 atrocity were of the same religion as them. This refusal to recognize a very real problem for the religion of Islam is still extremely worrying, but I guess I’m to much of an optimist to believe that more than half of American-Muslims are completely divorced from reality.

  32. Nals Rawna Says:
    Let’s see…white Christians in the last half century have:

    *Killed 8 million Gypsies, Jews, and homosexuals for the crime of being born;

    …and yet it is Muslims who are somehow a threat to the world. What a curious worldview to have.

    Nals, you aren’t talking about Hitler are you? If so, you need to do some homework before you post something like this again for the world to see. In fact he aligned himself with the Mufti of Egypt and had mass support from Muslims who actually wore the nazi uniform.

    All religions have had blood on their hands, but it should be obvious to most that today’s threat comes from radical Islam. They’ll kill you for simply rejecting Islam to become a Christian.

    A quote from Hitler below:

    “The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death…. When understanding of the universe has become widespread… Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity…. Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity…. And that’s why someday its structure will collapse…. …the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little…. Christianity the liar…. We’ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State.”

    Adolph Hitler
    Oct 14th, 1941

  33. I, for one, wish people would quit floating the word “peace” between Christians and Muslims, and even by atheists or secular humanists, as if it even remotely means the same thing. As for the argument over whether Islam means “peace” or “submission”, it is easily answered…it means BOTH to Muslims.

    Since, by Allah’s own definition, there is no peace in Islam without submission to Allah, there will never be true “peace” (i.e. non-violence) by Islam until the entire world is Islamified. Therefore Muslims can say they are an advocate of “peace”, just as much as they are an advocate of the entire world submitting to Allah. Moreover, and as you have clearly seen, non-violence has nothing to do whatsoever with winning peace in Islam.

    “Peace” to Christians, on the other hand, means assurance of salvation in Christ through faith, the aptly named, “peace that passes all undestanding” in being an heir to the kingdom. Christians are also to commit to personal non-violence, in modelling Christ, and to personally show sacrificial love of both friend and enemy alike as Christ did. Wars are to be left to the decision of governments and principalities as an arm of God’s judgment for defensive purposes only, and to be participated in by Christians with the aim of future peace and mercy, not conquest and forced submission. Yet Christ was quite direct in His words about our world NEVER being peaceful so long as sin against God exists, and how having a faith in Him would bring upon the sword against those who follow Him (and how right He was). However, submitting to God was to be done by free will, as the TRUE God desires us come to Him willingly, and on our own accord.

    Peace to the secular humanists and atheists simply means non-violence or a lack of war, which I would add, has no moral basis whatsoever in their religion of “enlightenment” or a natural selection of evolution.

    Clearly, all three are talking about something completely different, and moreover, Islam is clearly incongruent with the highest of virtues in America…that of our right to a free will to exercise the worship the God of our choice as endowed by God Himself…and not for any man, or government, or even RELIGION to say or force us to submit otherwise, or be subject to the jizya tax.

  34. Abu Noor,

    You say that:

    A few individuals (or even a few hundred or thousand individuals) doing something cannot fairly be attributed to the “religion of Islam.” Actually, even if every single Muslim did something one can not fairly attribute it to the “religion of Islam.”

    What CAN be attributed to the “religion” of Islam, if not the actions of the “ummah”?
    If there are 400 million muslims who support violent jihad, that cannot be attributed to the “religion” of Islam?
    Why?

    Fact: Islam is at war with the “other”.
    Fact: Islam is a cancer.
    Fact: Radiation therapy has a good chance of stumping out cancer.

  35. 39 out of 307 Muslims in this country would not report a plot to authorities of an imminent attack. This is almost 13% of the population, assuming the respondents were truthful enough. My experience with Muslims tells me that even this number is too short; Muslims generally try to save face and hence are not as truthful as Westerners think they are. But assuming it is, how should the rest of us look at the general Muslims population? How should we go about weeding out the plotters and those 39 people who corroborate with them before another disaster is upon us? How could the Muslim population claim to be peaceful?
    American people in general, and Democrats in particular, should wake up and take these numbers seriously. This group who are bound together thru this ideology have a major character flaw that, if allowed, will destroy this country.

  36. [...] And that brings me to a survey conducted at the Islamic Society of North America’s 43rd Annual Convention in Chicago of 307 of the attendees, all U.S. citizens.  It is important to note the Islamic Society of North America is an Islamist organization, therefore it is more than reasonable to assume most attendees ride the Islamist bandwagon which will skew the results quite considerably. [...]

  37. Abu Noor al-Irlandee October 26, 2006 at 2:10 am Reply

    Alex,

    What can be attributed to the religion of Islam are things that are in the Qur’an and Sunnah — the textual sources which Muslims believe to be revealed by God and which define what the religion of Islaam stands for.

    Muslims are human beings and they can do anything. Many people who are considered Muslims do not pray five times a day — could you say Islam does not teach prayer five times a day? This is an obvious distinction.

    If you want to look at the actions of Muslims and draw conclusions, then just say “some Muslims do such and such…”

    I hope that helps.

  38. [...] 30. If you learned about a plot by Muslims to attack targets inside America, would you tell law enforcement authorities? YES 234 NO 39 UNDECIDED 34 Muslims For A Safe America » Blog Archive » Survey Conducted At 2006 ISNA Convention Oh, before I forget, all of these responses came from Muslims who volunteerily stopped by the "Muslims for a safe America" booth during the 2006 ISNA Convention. [...]

  39. “The spark that lit the fire was the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia — Gulf War I. ”

    Actually, the spark was burning long before 1989/1990. I distinctly remember 1979 when Iranian Shites were protesting against the Great Satan in the streets of Tehran. Khomeini’s devotees claimed they weren’t protesting against the people of Amerikkka — only its government and President Jimmy Carter.

    The followers of Mohammad have been waging an imperialistic war of aggression against Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and Jews for the past 1300 years. This current war is nothing new.

  40. Islam is at war with the non-Muslim world. It is a central tenet of their faith.

    The Qura’n instructs Muslims that:

    Polytheists (Hindus) and idolaters (buddhists) are worthy of death if they don’t convert to Islam.

    Jew and Christians are subject to death unless they convert to Islam or accept secondary status as a dhimmi and pay the jizya.

    Muslims are obligated to wage jihad in an effort to establish Islam as a global religion to the exclusion of all others.

    Muslims are forbidden from entering into alliances with non-Muslims against other Muslims.

    Women and children are religiously-sanctioned war booty.

    Apostasy is punishable by death.

    Adultery is punishable by death by stoning.

    Muslims are permitted to lie (taqiyya) in order to advance the cause of Islam.

    The Islamic world’s belief system and culture is fundamentally incompatible with Western notions of free speech, individuality, religious freedom and gender equality. Stop kidding yourselves.

  41. Every privious group of immigrants to America has found it’s new nation at war with the place from which they came, and earned its citizenship by fighting and dying for their new nation against their old–even in the face of suspicion, discrimination, and in the case of the Japanese, internment–until now. From this group of new “citizens” we see anti-american conspiracy theories and betrayel. The only prominent military volunteer they give us is a deserter and traitor.

    American Muslims are not, as group, earning their citizenship in America and many, if naturalized, are showing their oaths of alliegience to have been a fraud. Muslims want to be accepted as full citizens in the US, but that will require more than paper or a birth certificate. It will require, as it has with all new groups in America, that the nations military cemetaries show a fair share of Muslims who have paid the ultimate price for American freedom. Until then, their place here is frankly provisional.

  42. A question to those on here who seem to believe that the 9/11 attacks and similar terrorist activities were not religiously-motivated or somehow not directly related to the Qu’ran and Sunnah:

    If Osama Bin Laden and his ilk are not true Muslims, if they are, as you believe, distorting a beautiful religion of peace, then why in the world do they quote Islamic texts to justify their actions? Why does OBL feel the need to consult with a Muslim Cleric before carrying out further attacks on America? Why are these attacks done in the name and defense of all Muslims everywhere, for the glory of Allah and to shouts of “Allah hu’akbar”? Why have no prominent Muslim religious leaders dissected the “radical interpretation” of Islam and shown it to be false (if that is indeed possible)?

    The sad and sobering fact, as I see it, is that the MAINSTREAM interpretation of Islam, according to the Quran, the Sunnah, the ahahdith, hundreds of years of interpretation and the example of Muhammad himself, justify and encourage acts of barbarity both towards fellow Muslims (honor killings, stonings, etc.) and especially towards the infidel dogs. The stated goal of Islam is to subdue and conquer the entire world, through force.

    For those who want to try to draw some sort of equivalency to Christian or Jewish violence, ask yourselves this: How many acts of violence by Christians are accompanied by cries of “Allah is NOT the greatest!” or “Jesus is the best!”? How many acts of terrorism are justified by excerpts from the Torah or Bible? How many priests or rabbis issue public statements in support of killing civilians?

    Islam is a religion of war. Look at the example of those who knew Mohammed best and carried on in his footsteps, and there you will find years and years of war, slavery, deceit and conquest. Not so with the (immediate) followers of Jesus and Moses. Early Christians were pacifists, excused from service in the pagan Roman war machine. The Jews conquered a tiny sliver of land and stopped there. The only thing that stopped the Muslim hordes of Mohammed from overrunning the entire civilized world was the military might of Christian Europe and the Crusades. Yes, yes, I know. The Crusades this, the Crusades that, blah blah blah Christians are no better than Osama. Keep in mind that the Crusades were a DEFENSIVE RESPONSE to Muslim empire-building. The brutality and violence of the Crusades is an example of what can happen when soldiers have to throw away their Judeo-Christian ethics of war (notice that nobody ever talks about Judeo-Christian-Muslim ethics) and fight the Jihadi hordes on their own level.

    I plead with all concerned American muslims reading my words to recognize the violent element of their religion and to become a voice of true moderation and reform by working to eliminate these undesirable elements. Without reform from within, Islam will recieve a rebuke from without, and all followers of Muhammad will be painted with the same bloody brush. The only question is when.

  43. Abu Noor al-Irlandee October 26, 2006 at 4:45 am Reply

    Mr. Martel,

    You’re right Mr. Martel — how dare the Iranians be upset at the US government for supporting a tyrant king in their country!

    That proves that there’s been a 1300 year war going on, right? Are you for real or are you guys all just a parody of ignorant LGF bozos?

    Also, while you’re perhaps reading a book or two about history, maybe you’ll pick up the English language. When someone uses the expression the spark that lit the fire it refers to the fact that there were many prior grievances which created a dangerous situation (the kindling or fuel for the fire was already laid out) but that no actual fire had started (there hadn’t been attacks) until the next action (which is the spark) then started the fire.

    The analysis I presented is nothing to be angry about nor is it even controversial nor is it even pro-Muslim. This is the analysis of those who know the facts, regardless of where their sympathies lie (read Michael Scheuer, Olivier Roy, Gilles Kepel, Lawrence Wright, Peter Bergen) anyone with a cogent thought and research. It does no one any good to spread ignorant myths about how we got to where we are now. (well, maybe it helps the U.S. to get war support since no intelligent person who knew the history and had U.S. interests at heart would support something like the Iraq invasion.

    God knows best.

  44. Abu Noor,

    So if one were to find verses in the Qu’ran that would incite believers to violence against unbelievers (9:73, 9:111 for starters) then would you say these verses represent true Islam?

    If one were to find verses in the Qu’ran that would value a woman as that of half a man (2:282, 4:11 for starters) then would you say these verses represent true Islam?

    And what if one were to find verses in the Qu’ran that would guide muslims not to befriend unbelievers but rather slay them (4:89) then would you say these verses represent true Islam?

    Awaiting your reply,
    Alex B.

  45. You put down a rabid dog. You don’t create a paranoid fantasy that the “Jews” and the CIA are to blame for infecting the dog with rabies in the first place.

  46. The Nazis were left-wing humanists. Don’t lay their crimes against humanity at the feet of Christendom. I think that point was adequately explained by a previous poster, thank you. R.J. Rummel’s death by government documents the nearly 200 million innocent civilians who perished under hyper-secular, atheistic governments in less than a century. So let’s not go down that road of bashing Christendom, or more precisely the Roman Catholic Church.

    Now the way I see this as average American Joe, I see Muslim fundamentalists murdering Hindus, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Taoists, atheists, pagans, and garden variety seculars explicitly in the name of the Koran, Allah, Islam and/or Mohammed. Heck, Muslims even murder each other in the name of their religion despite the fact the Koran explicitly denounces such fratricides. But its made all the easier by one side or the other declaring it apostate.

    Now tell me, in the last 100 years where are there armed conflicts involving Christians and Buddhists expressly in the name of their religion? Jews and Hindus? Atheists and pagans? Nay, most of the other conflicts in the world are grounded either in political civil war, secular nationalism, geo-political squabbles, etc. We don’t see any religious movement other than Islam engaged in expanding its reach through violence. That doesn’t mean Christians or Jews haven’t killed anyone of a different faith during war, what it does mean is that we aren’t killing anyone in the name of Jesus, the Bible or Jehovah. There is a difference here.

    What makes Islam so dangerous is that the mosque is the state. Islam is essentially a political movement which evolved into a “religion”, a way of life. Mohammed was a man of violence throughout the latter part of his life and I find it very difficult to believe that such a man can originate a “religion of peace.” At its very core Islam is political and tribal and thus in regions where it is practiced by the majority of its adherents the governments are invariably Islamic. There is no such thing as separation of church and state under Islam.

  47. Hi there,

    desertdink wrote the following:

    “Peace to the secular humanists and atheists simply means non-violence or a lack of war, which I would add, has no moral basis whatsoever in their religion of “enlightenment” or a natural selection of evolution.”

    you couldn’t be more wrong about this, you ignorant fool. have you ever met an atheist or a person who calls himself a humanist? you should be ashamed of yourself!

    this is enraging! i can’t believe that human beings are capable of passing judgement about something they don’t know…

    why do you feel the urge to voice an uninformed opinion about something you have absolutely no clue of whatsoever?!

    why, oh why do i have to live in a world full of ignorant Christians who spoil the term ‘Christian’ for the good Christians?

    it is outrageous!

    Andrea

  48. [...] October 25, 2006 The following are some of the results of a poll of 307 American citizens who also happen to be Muslim:  [...]

  49. anyone who believes as the majority do in this survey have no business living in this country or being American citizens…please do us all a favor and leave for someplace else where you can live out the rest of your misplaced lives among others who feel and think similarly…why are you here?

  50. “We don’t see any religious movement other than Islam engaged in expanding its reach through violence.”

    FYI: Zionists founded Israel at least in part through violence and yes, ever terrorism against British civillians. Although this is routinely denied by neo-cons and American jewery, you can read about this on the Israeli government website under “History of Israel.”

    To some extent this is nitpicking, however, as the Zionists just wanted Israel and not the world.

    Regarding spreading Islam by the sword, however, I think you would find that although there may be a great many Muslims who are in favor of this, they still remain in the minority.

    Over the years I have had dozens of Muslim coworkers, and I’ve never had any serious compliants. I also used to live a block from a mosque without any troubles.

    If I may offer my opion, the problem is:
    (1) There is a longing for the days when the islamic Ottoman empire was one of the foremost powers in the world. Many people in Middle East forget that their ancestors were not so much part of this great empire as conquered subjects longing for freedom from the Turkish Ottomans.

    (2) The pan-arabists (secular Baathists and religious Islamists) play on this longing for past greatness by proposing a new empire. With each pan-arabist leader picturing HIMSELF as king over the other pan-arabists, of course.

    (3) The pan-arabists need to invent a reason for why the Islamic empire crumbled, and the blame it on the West, on Zionism, on whatever. The truth is the thing crumbled from within and the European powers just picked apart the bones like crows on carrion. This truth is embarassing for anyone longing for past greatness, hence the emphasis on a scapegoat.

    (4) The dictators running most of the Middle East need an excuse for why their people are impoverished, despite this rich history. Again, the European powers trampled through the Middle East 100 years ago and made a great mess. Jockeying for position by the Soviets and the West during the cold war made another great mess 50 to 30 years ago. And general meddling by America in the last decade hasn’t helped any.

    Given all these REAL grievences, it is EASY for a dictator to come up with enough IMAGINED grievences to convince his people that all their troubles come at the hands of the West.

    (We’ll ignore for the moment that the Ottomans made a huge bloody mess building their empire in the first place. The only crimes that matter are ones against the Islamic state, not the one BY the Islamic state. )

    (5) The intrusion of western media and western clothing and western products and western ideas creates a real fear of losing the local culture. This is a common fear all over the world, and is hardly unique to the Middle East.

    (6) The stereotype of Middle eastern culture has much in common with the sterotype of “hot-headed Itallians” or “hot blodded Latinos” or other macho ideals. The only bad experiences I have have *personally* had with Muslims were actually bad experiences with self-important, chauvinistic , hot-headed ethnic ARABs who could NOT be told they were wrong. Apparently, being wrong = being weak. That they were probably Muslim most likely had nothing to do with this.

    To sum up:
    There is a longing for an idealized vision of past greatness.
    There are real historic and recent grievences against the West.
    There is a real fear of cultural extinction.
    The real grievences are used to create imagined ones.
    Muslim leaders of all stripes gain by blaming the current situation on the West.
    A machismo culture helps feed this cycle of induced rage.

    And in general, it is always preferable to believe you are being held down than to put in the effort to get up.

  51. “ignorant LGF bozos”

    When you can’t win the battle w/ ideas, you instantly resort to name calling. Coming from you, I consider being called an ignorant bozo to be a great compliment.

    Face it, you and your so-called “spiritual ancestors” have been trying to impose the caliphate upon the rest of the world for the past 1300 years. Your spiritual ancestors crushed Jewish and Christian cultures in the Middle East, North Africa, Iberia, Anatolia, Sicily, and Central Asia. They crushed Buddhist and Hindu cultures in Asia and on the Indian Subcontinent. You and yours today continue this drive of theocratic imperialist aggression. You and yours continue to attempt, by terroristic means, to impose the caliphate upon the rest of us.

    I’m sure you will understand if we don’t accede to your terroristic attempts to run our lives.

  52. This study only shows most muslims are delusional, and are not concerned with the truth. Quite sad really, but not unexpected.

  53. Funny how Muslims are so quick to forget America saving their asses in Bosnia in the late 90′s.

  54. Abu Noor al-Irlandee October 26, 2006 at 11:08 pm Reply

    Art A.,

    Obviously the war in Bosnia never took place, because your friends on these comments have informed all of us that Christians never kill in the name of religion, so who exactly were you saving the Bosnians from?

  55. I am not surprised at the survey results. ISNA goers are mostly quran toting muslims. They dont believe anything western media says and believes in every conspiracy theory spread by islamists because quran says “disbelievers are liars”(16.39). Deep down they discriminate against all non-muslims because quran calls all non muslims “worst beasts” (8.55) and “lowest creatures”(98.6).
    Like Ali Sina (faithfreedom.org) says, they all suffer from disease called “islam”.

  56. Abu Noor al-Irlandee October 26, 2006 at 11:20 pm Reply

    Mr. Martel,

    The fact that you did not respond to any of my arguments proves that the comment I made fits you. But ignorance is something that can be solved, all you have to do is learn. The real problem is that you are not interested in knowing the truth. If my using the term ‘bozo’ contributed to that than I am sorry and I apologize. Please forgive me.

    I do not deny that Muslims have persecuted non-Muslims in certain places over the last 13 centuries. To claim that Muslims did so MORE or in the same way as Christians have done is to completely ignore history and the evidence in front of our eyes.

    In all the places you claimed that Muslims destroyed Jewish, Christian, Buddhist and Hindu cultures and peoples, those cultures and peoples continued to exist throughout those centuries that you are talking about. On the other hand, if we wanted to know what really destroying a culture is, we would have to look to what Christians did in Spain or in the so-called “New World.”

    Again, Mr. Martel if you are serious about understanding what is going on, I refer you to the serious scholars and journalists I referred to above (there are also many others and none of these people are Muslims). I promise you you can still hate Muslims if you want to or feel you must but at least you can criticize based on reality and not myth or delusion. And while you may find yourself actually impressed and moved by Islam if you were open to exploring it, Muslims are human beings and you will find endless things about them to criticize and complain and be alarmed about, just like most Muslims do.

    Your brother in humanity.

    Abu Noor

  57. Abu Noor al-Irlandee October 26, 2006 at 11:38 pm Reply

    World Reader,

    You make interesting points which I hope are helpful for some of the other commenters in understanding what’s going on.

    The only thing I would say, which I’m pretty sure you know, but one could misunderstand from your post is that while Arab and other dictators do try to use certain things to direct anger away from them and towards others, in general Islamists hate the dictators over them even more than they hate the U.S. or the West and those dictators are (in general although not in all cases) allied with the Western governments who are fighting with the Islamists.

  58. There are many good people who say they are muslim,invariably they are those who are mainly secular and do not follow all the tenets of islam while those who actually follow islam faithfully tend to be the most violent.

    Islam is like a cancerous mafia with no way out except for death for those imprisoned by it and the west should wake up from it´s wet dream of multi-culturalism and realize that it faces the greatest threat to it´s existence since the Ottomans tried to destroy Vienna and the naval battle at Lepanto.

  59. hi there,

    Abu wrote:

    “Obviously the war in Bosnia never took place, because your friends on these comments have informed all of us that Christians never kill in the name of religion, so who exactly were you saving the Bosnians from?”

    you’re kidding me right?

    were you there? i’m from Szeged, it’s a city about half-an-hour drive from the Serbien boarder. trust me, that war had not much to do with religion…

    (why would a Croatian kill a Serb? it happened)

    Andrea

  60. Abu Noor al-Irlandee October 27, 2006 at 12:17 am Reply

    Alex B.

    If you were to study the commentaries on those verses and read the history of the life of the Prophet peace be upon him, you might begin to understand what the verses mean and how to apply them. Those understandings can, should and must be attributed to Islam.

    So, yes there are times and circumstances when Islam calls on Muslims to fight non-Muslims who are at war with the Muslims, have expelled them from their homes, have stolen their property, have tortured Muslims, have killed civilian Muslims, including women, etc. etc.

    There are other verses which describe how to behave towards non-Muslims who do not do the above things. In general, Muslims are enjoined by the Qur’an to behave well towards all people regardless of their faith, and even with those who do not behave well towards us. But it is true that in the Qur’an God does call upon believers to fight in certain circumstances. But in no case does the Qur’an call on believers to kill anyone because they are an unbeliever.

    The Qur’an does not talk about friendship in the verses you are talking about. The Arabic term wilaya, which is sometimes translated with the English word friend, refers to a specific type of political relationship.

    The Qur’an does not ever say that a woman is valued half of a man. There are verses specifically enunciating the concept that men and women are of equal worth with God. There are verses which show how God especially values certain women and women in general. There are certain legal situations, described in the Qur’an for which two women witnesses are required whereas one male witness would be required. Exactly how to apply that verse and of course what are the underlying reasons behind it are things that scholars have discussed and differed on throughout Islamic history.

    It would appear from your post that you have been referred to certain verses by someone who was against Islam or wanted you to believe something. I encourage you to actually read the entire book if you are interested in understanding it. For example, I don’t think 4: 89 is even talking about who you think it is talking about.

    I, for example, although I was a Christian for many years, do not engage in debate or discussion about the Bible or the Torah because I have not studied it seriously. I could go and cut and paste some verses from the bible out of context and say this means something bad about Christians or Jews but that would be intellectually dishonest and dishonest to my belief in the genuine prophethood of Moses peace be upon him and Jesus peace be upon him and my belief in the blessed and sacred nature of the books they brought as revelations from Almighty God, regardless of the misguided actions of some who claim to follow them.

    So if you are interested in what the Qur’an teaches then I encourage you to study it sincerely and with an open heart and may God bless you on your spiritual journey to find the Truth.

    Your brother in humanity,

    Abu Noor

  61. Abu Noor al-Irlandee October 27, 2006 at 12:26 am Reply

    Andrea,

    No I wasn’t there. The discussion was not really about why people do things which is complicated in all cases but about the reasons and justifications people give for doing things.

    The argument was made that Christians may kill people but they never say they are killing people because of religion. I am not saying the Serbs were “good” Christians but I am saying that there was a systematic campaign among the Serbian nationalists to build up hatred against Muslims and to spread lies about Islam in order to justify and/or motivate their plans to commit genocide upon the Bosnian Muslim population.

    Peace,

    Abu Noor

  62. I think this survey of “muslim Americans” pretty much speaks for itself in where their alliance truly lies. I also think it is high time that the rest of us Americans stood up and “did the right thing” when it comes to these terrorist loving muslim swine. Unfortunately, this great nation tends to only do 95% of what is necessary to solve any given problem, which leaves the problem not fully stamped out.

  63. “The fact that you did not respond . . . .”

    There was nothing for me to respond to. You calling me an “ignorant bozo” isn’t much of an argument — at least in my book.

    The simple fact is that in the areas of Middle East, North Africa, Iberia, Anatolia, Sicily, and Central Asia, the Christian cultures there were crushed by your spiritual ancestors. It wasn’t until Christian peoples reconquered Spain and Sicily that Christianity was more than a nominal presence in those lands.

    I will tell you what. If you want me to begin to believe Islam is a “religion of peace”, you can start by giving the Hagia Sophia back to the Eastern Orthodox Church. Meanwhile, I will continue to judge your religion based on the actions of its adherents over the past 1300 years.

  64. More people are killed by Islamic extremists EACH year than were killed during the Spanish Inquisition.

    Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years.

    More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.

    Muslim political and religious leaders have killed more Muslims than any other religious faction.
    Muslims need to clean house.

    One Muslim posted that America backs their ruthless dictators. Well we removed two of the worse regimes and they still complain.

  65. Two questions not posed could have helped me better understand Americans that are Muslim.

    First, did these Muslims agree or disagree with the forced conversion to Islam of the two news journalists abducted in Gaza?

    Second, were these Muslims offended by the comments made by Pope Benedict XVI, speaking in Regensburg, that came on the heels of these two forced conversions to Islam?

  66. Abu Noor,

    What you basically wrote is that what I wrote was untrue, without any actual proof. For your information, I have read 3 different translations of the Qu’ran. Yes, three, on several occasions cover-to-cover. How many have you read?

    Leaving your implication that I am ignorant of Islam aside, let’s go through each verse I presented with one translation of the Qur’an:

    9:73: O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey’s end.

    This tells us that Allah urges Muhammad to fight the kufr and the munafiq, to be harsh with them, and condemns them to hellfire.
    Now, as we have all learned when studying Islam, Muhammad (Pigs be upon him) was al-insan al-kamil, the perfect man. As we further know, the mujaheddin seek to emulate the actions and inactions of Muhammad. You think they’d skip this? In the past 1300 years of Islams blitzkrieg warfare, this verse has been important indeed.

    9:111: Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur’an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah ? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.

    Here we are informed that Allah owns all muslims and their possessions which will be given back to them in Paradise when they are slain or slay in the name of Allah.

    2:282: … And call two witness from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not at hand, then a man and two women, of such as ye approve as witnesses, so that if one erreth (though forgetfulness) the other will remember. …

    4:11 Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females, and if there be women more than two, then theirs is two-thirds of the inheritance, and if there be one (only) then the half.

    These here verses tell us simply that women are stupid and cannot be trusted with the simplest of tasks alone. Further, they very clearly demonstrate a womans worth: 2 women = 1 man. What misogyny. You call this progressive?

    Finally, 4:89: They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them.

    Thus, because the kufr seek to make you, a good muslim, a kafir as well, do not befriend them but instead slay them if they refuse the daw’a, or conversion to Islam that you offer them.

    As a closing statement I would like to say that the actions of Abu Noor on this here page can accurately only be described as taqqiya (or kithman, or both), that is, the deceiving of unbelievers in order to advance the cause of Islam. That cause, of course, is nothing less than world conquest.

    Alex

  67. “do not befriend them but instead slay them if they refuse the daw’a, or conversion to Islam that you offer them.”

    Well they’d have to slay me if they ever commanded me to get on a prayer rug. But if they fail to slay me, they’ll need to have said prayer rug surgically removed from their colon.

    To defend my faith?…… Nah

    Signed,
    Atheist LGF Bozo

  68. These are terrifying stats.

    Please allow me to explain why.

    10% of those surveyed say that it is OK to attack their fellow citizens.

    Note: this is not a survey of Palestinians (where the numbers would no doubt be higher).

    The US has a population of 300,000,000. Roughly 2% of that population is Muslim. 10% of those believe that it is OK to attack random civilans.

    This is an army of 600,000 people that are willing to kill their countrymen.

    Even if they are off by a factor of 10, that is an army of 60,000.

    Living in our country.

    Right now.

    Do this mental exercise. Ask the question:
    “Do you believe that it is OK for a Christian to physically attack or kill US Muslims on the basis of actions taken by Islamics in other countries?”

    What percentage of Christians in the US would answer “yes” to that question?

  69. Just to be abundantly clear…my last question is rhetorical.

    I would put the percentage of Christians who would answer “yes” to that question at something very very very close to zero.

    disclosure: I myself am an atheist.

  70. Here’s how I see it…
    I used to believe my President when he told us that Islam is a religion of peace kidnapped by extremists. I used to believe that deep down all humans really want to live in peace. I used to believe that anyone could see that human life is precious, any life. I have been wrong.

    Islam is a religion of hate. Plain and simple. No religion of love and peace condones the killing of innocents. Except Islam. We can play the tit-for-tat game all day. Christians did this, Muslims did that. In the end, where does this get us? No where.

    There will be peace in the middle east only when Islam is either decimated or educated. Not before. In this countries short history we’ve had a few run-ins with Islam before the current crisis.

    In 1898 the US fought a war with Spain, and after winning that war the US gained control over many places globally that had been part of the Spanish Empire. One of these places was the Phillipines. At the time the christian majority of the Phillipines were being persecuted by Islamic death squads. Islam was, and is, unwilling to “share” space with any other religion, any other faith. In order to put down the muslim insurrection the US government undertook some seemingly draconian methods, including the use of pork skin body bags and the dousing of dead militants in pigs blood.

    Guess what? The insurrection died away because the US was willing to take desparate measures. Read of General “Black Jack” Pershing and his exploits in the Phillipines if you don’t believe it.

    That takes me to my next point. What is it going to take to FORCE islam to reform? If muslims are unwilling to shed the bloody extremists from their ranks then they invite a return to globally open hostility. Perhaps we in the west should begin to show the same casual disregard for human life that many muslims obviously feel.

    I wonder what the muslim reaction would be if a “christian” decided to strap on a bomb belt and ran into a mosque. Maybe seeing what Israel has been enduring will teach the important lessons. Maybe a young “jew” can sneak a knife aboard a jumbo jet headed to Mecca for the Holy Pilgrimage and slamming said jumbo jet into Islams most holy shrine will send a message.

    Do I want this to happen? Of course not. Terrorism is the weapon of choice for cowards, not warriors. I abhore the killing of innocents on purpose, and that brings us to the crux of the situation. No where in the world today is the US Military INTENTIONALLY targeting muslim civilians. Even Israel doesn’t target muslim civilians. Of course there will be collateral casualties, and that’s a shame. But it’s a far cry from some dirt bag running into a crowded marketplace and blowing up a bunch of women and children. You cannot say that Islam doesn’t target the innocent because that’s ALL that the terrorists can show for themselves.

    Cowards,
    C.

  71. Hatred Begets Hatred;
    An Eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life.
    Where will it all end? Only Islam can know that answer.

  72. “But it’s a far cry from some dirt bag running into a crowded marketplace and blowing up a bunch of women and children.”

    You are 100% correct…… Muslims being killed by Muslim homicide bombers.

    But it’s ok……. Bush is being blamed for all these deaths as well.

    Too bad Islam didn’t have the foresight to reform itself like Christianity did (IE: New Testament). Who knows, the extremists might be contributing something to the world instead of running around like a bunch of goofy, hatefilled, 7th century throwbacks.

  73. Abu Noor must be a Bush-Rove plant. No one could be that bad at defending Islam.

    How do we get a shot at the 72 virgins Mr. Rove?

  74. The oil wealth of the Middle East has been squandered by hereditary monarchs who are supported by compliant bought-off Imams who were given control over the educational systems of their respective countries. The Moslem dictators do nothing to improve the living condition of their vastly overpopulated societies, while the Imams teach conspiracy theories and hatred of non-Moslems. With inferior educational systems, a medieval attitude toward women, plus persecution of religious minorities, it should be no surprise to anyone that Islamic nations are woefully backward relative to Western nations in nearly every regard. Without a vast reformation movement within Islam, there is no hope for peace in the Middle East, or probably anywhere else on the planet as long as Islamists are continually created by their religiosocial system.

  75. [...] Recently (September 1, 2006 to September 4, 2006 ), Muslims for a Safe America did a survey at the Islamic Society of North America’s 43rd Annual Convention in Chicago, and published their results. Among the “highlights”: [...]

  76. Troubling Survey of Moslems in America

    This survey was filled out by Moslems at the Islamic Society of North America convention. This convention draws about 30,000 attendees yearly. Its members overwhelmingly belong to Saudi-funded, Wahabbi influenced mosques. 307 responded to the survey. This is approximately 1% of attendees at the convention. All the respondents were U.S. citizens. We don’t know how many women answered as compared to men.

    Though the U.S. has not suffered any major terror attacks inside the U.S. since 9/11, this survey shows that fortunate circumstance does not result from any immunity of U.S. Moslems to jihadist tendencies or sympathies.

    [...] No fresh immigrants here. Nobody here who plans to leave soon. All these responses come from people who want to live the rest of their lives in the USA, and who want their children and their children’s children to live in the USA too. Bear that in mind as you read on.

  77. I’m not surprised by these polls, Muslims everywhere seem to have a hard time with their government regardless of whether Islam is the dominant religion.

    Honestly… look at every conflict in the world, almost every single one has a Muslim militia involved. As I said before, I’m not surprised by these attitudes. I wish moderate Muslims could take their religion back from people that compare unveiled women to raw meat.

    Muslims that don’t hold intolerant or ignorant views are welcome to live in my neighborhood. Evangelize your faith but only when alongside reason.

  78. hi there,

    Abu wrote:
    “The argument was made that Christians may kill people but they never say they are killing people because of religion.

    I am not saying the Serbs were “good” Christians but I am saying that there was a systematic campaign among the Serbian nationalists to build up hatred against Muslims and to spread lies about Islam in order to justify and/or motivate their plans to commit genocide upon the Bosnian Muslim population.”

    not true

    many people in Yugoslavia were atheists. this war had not much to do with religion

    the problems between different ethnic groups in that area have complex reasons and a long history. but many people were not even religious in Yugoslavia!!!

    so in this case you can’t talk about Christians

    maybe the usa is a country where there are many Christians but here in europe religion not the main point. that’s what most of the people don’t understand

    Andrea

  79. hi there,

    Bill H wrote:
    “Too bad Islam didn’t have the foresight to reform itself like Christianity did (IE: New Testament).”

    ???????????????????

    Andrea

  80. The results of this survey are entirely consistent with similar surveys performed in the UK. A leading member of one of the UK’s largest mosques (supposedly a “moderate”) said that al-Qaeda didn’t exist, and that the failed suicide bombers of 21/7 were arrested purely because they were Muslims, and that the perpetrators of 7/7 were not Muslims.

    A speaker at a meeting in the area of Birmingham where I lived praised the 9/11 bombers to rounds of applause.

    Can Muslims not see the inconsistency of supporting terror attacks then claiming Muslims could not have carried the 9/11 and 7/7 attacks? One of the airplane bomb plotters claimed that the fact he believed 9/11 was committed by the CIA and Mossad led him to being a terrorist. What kind of bizarre logic is that?

  81. I found it unbelieveable that some muslims thought it was acceptable to attack U.S. military personal on U.S. ground. They all should be deported, jailed, or worse!

  82. “Too bad Islam didn’t have the foresight to reform itself like Christianity did (IE: New Testament).”

    ???????????????????

    Old Testament was a temporary Covenant which would end with the death of Jesus Christ, and a New Covenant would then begin.

    Old Testament = Mosaic Law (much like the present day Koran)
    Getting to the promised land by following strict laws.

    New Testament = Grace (no Islamic equivalent)
    Getting to the promised land by salvation alone.

    (protestant viewpoint)

  83. I see many posts stating “American Muslim” and the like. Some asking “What would the Christian result look like if they were asked a similar question of their layalties, Christian or American first?”

    I can answer that question easily and without hesitation. I am an American first and foremost. I was born an American and will die defending my nation and our way of life. If some have a problem with our views, then sobeit. But do not come here and proclaiming that we are wrong that killing innocent people is a falicy without purpose.

    Anyone who says they are a nationaality along with anything else (be it “American Christian” or “American Muslim” or “American Jew”… the list goes on and are examples), are none of the listed. If you choose to try and segragate yourself and say you are of two likes, then you are neither. I am an American, not an American Christian. My religion is Christianity, yes, and I display it proudly. I believe in a religion of peace and tolerance, but there is a limit to the tolerance one can condone. This limit was reached a long time ago.

    And to those saying that the U.S. started this, you are severely mistaken. The U.S. came into the Middle East at the behest of others in the region, asking for help. The U.S. also entered the area because the government saw the potential harm and havoc that could be caused by the movement. Since no other nation was willing to be “politically incorrect” or “naive,” the U.S. took the stance that this should not continue. Untold numbers of people have died because of this extremist movement.

    I have seen Muslims post here stating that this shocks them. How could this shock them? This doesn’t shock me. I guess I am just more informed, I do not know. What I do know is this. If you are a truly peaceful believe in Islam and believe that what these extremists are doing is wrong, then do something about it. Speak out. Demostrate against THEM, not against those trying to put these extremist away and out of sight (and existence).

    To any who post that diplomacy is the only true means to an end, I say this one thing. Wake up. Awake from you isolate slumber and see the world. The world is not yet at a state where diplomacy is the only means. Diplomacy has its place, yes, and should be used to the utmost. But when those who you are attempting diplomatic means decide to behead other people, then there is no negotiation possible with those people.

    I am sorry, but it is no possible. The only possibilities are these. Destruction from within, meaning that those who believe in a peaceful Islam taking a stance against those who do not. Thereby bringing a peaceful view from others in the world on the Islamic religion. As it stands now, people view Islam as a barbaric and viscious religion. Even those that know the true meanings of Islam see this.

    The second possiblity is annihilation of these extremists. This is the current and standing plan. And the only foreseeable solution at the present time.

    Diplomacy was attempted and has failed. It has failed, not on the part of those attempting to come to a solution, but those that lied that they would live up to the agreement. Those in the Islamic community that agreed to past treaties have broken every one of those treaties. I am sorry, but I cannot believe that these peoples will honor any such diplomatic resolutions in the future or present.

  84. It’s really heartening to come across blog comments that are not simply hate-filled insults one where some kind of dialogue is attempted. Was disappointed, Alex, that you had to resort to insults when replying to Abu Noor – I was brought up to believe that if an argument is worth its salt, you don’t need to resort to vulgarity and insults regarding what the other person thinks. If you do – you tend to become totally unconvincing.

  85. I have a question for the gentleman who monitors this website;
    Can you name 3 “christian” terrorist outfits? I bet you can’t.
    Meanwhile, here’s a list for you:
    Al Queda
    Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
    Palistinian Liberation Organization (PLO)
    Hamas
    Hezbollah
    Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade
    Abu Sayyef
    Ansar Al Islam
    Jemaah Islamiyah
    Armed Islamic Group
    Asbat al-Ansar
    Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya

    Etc. Etc. Etc.

    These are just the names of groups I can remember off the top of my head. Now I’m sure that there are some obscure terrorist groups that call themselves christian, but I’d bet I have named more from memory then you can find doing research.

    What you have to remember is this: During World War II the US opted to intern Japanese citizens rather then face the spector of homegrown acts of sabotage. We can argue all day on the merits of the internment, but the results are indisputable. During the Second World War there wasn’t a single act of sabotage (terrorism) committed within the US. If, and this is a big if, a muslim extremist were to committ an act of terrorism here in the US, and he was found out to be a native born citizen or a legal immigrant, well then muslims may be facing the same horrible outcome; Internment. Or worse.

    Despite what many in the middle east feel about the US, we live in one of the most tolerant societies on the planet. Here in the US you are free to be who you want to be. You can be christian, muslim, hindu, gay, humanist, and all at the same time if you like. That is what Islamic countries are sorely lacking.

  86. Abu Noor al-Irlandee October 28, 2006 at 5:24 am Reply

    Mr. Cory, I am not the gentleman who runs the website but I wanted to respond to a couple of points in your post.

    Mr. Cory, a number of the organizations you listed are not Muslim groups. PFLP is a Marxist org founded by a Christian. PLO is a nationalist secular organization.

    The discussion you want to start will lead nowhere, but I just give you that for your information.

    I find the last two paragraphs extremely odd; first you would like to inform all Muslims to remember that we could be put into concentration camps at a time of your desire, at the same time you want to remind us that this is one of the most tolerant societies on earth.

    Huh?

    Peace.

  87. Abu Noor al-Irlandee October 28, 2006 at 5:28 am Reply

    tilleli,

    I was also saddened by the turn the discussion took. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, but why comment if one is only interested in name calling or cut and paste mantras and not discussion?

    It just drowns out those that actually might have something to teach us.

    Again, if I contributed to that with my ‘LGF bozo’ remark I apologize to everyone.

  88. hi there,

    sorry man, it still doesn’t make sense

    you claim that Christianity reformed itself. well, Ch. DID reform itself, but that was the Reformation

    what you ramble about is a whole different issue

    first: Islam is much younger than Ch., second: Mosaic law is not Ch. but Jewish

    i can’t believe i am actually reading this…

    Bill H wrote:
    “Too bad Islam didn’t have the foresight to reform itself like Christianity did (IE: New Testament).”

    and

    “Old Testament was a temporary Covenant which would end with the death of Jesus Christ, and a New Covenant would then begin.

    Old Testament = Mosaic Law (much like the present day Koran)
    Getting to the promised land by following strict laws.

    New Testament = Grace (no Islamic equivalent)
    Getting to the promised land by salvation alone.”

    Andre

  89. I see. So now calling out a liar constitutes vulgarity and insults?
    So be it.
    I claim victory. Sweet it is.
    Call me again when you can actually back up your utterly dishonest exhortations on how “Islam = peace” with some tried and true facts. And when you try that, I’ll just quote Bukhari and Muslim and mudstomp you once again.

    Cya!

  90. “you claim that Christianity reformed itself. well, Ch. DID reform itself, but that was the Reformation.

    first: Islam is much younger than Ch., second: Mosaic law is not Ch. but Jewish

    i can’t believe i am actually reading this…”

    Islam is much younger than Christianity…….. who cares? It’s still a broken ideology, living in the past. What’s your point?

    If your complaint with me is that there couldn’t be a Christian reformation prior to Christianity then you are of course correct. But last time I checked, the Christian Bible does contain the Old Testament, the Old Testament is the foundation of Christianity.

    If I used the term “Reformation” which means something more to you than it does me, fine….. the Reformation you speak of was when the protestants separated themselves from the wacky Catholics. Big deal, big whoop and good riddance. Merely a bump in the road, hence my statement “protestant viewpoint”. Read for comprehension much?

    Old Testament to the New Testament…….. now that was a huge “transformation” is that better for you?…. Law to Grace……call it what you want….. don’t care.

    If in fact you are talking about the 16th century Reformation you are on a different track than I am, but you also prove my point.

    The Reformation of the 16th century was a movement within Western Christendom to purge the church of MEDIEVAL ABUSES (present day Islam anyone?) and to restore the doctrines and practices that the reformers believed conformed with the Bible and the NEW TESTAMENT model of the church……. hello! Earth calling Andrea!

    “Mosaic law is Jewish not Christian” you say. Ok….. you are right…… Judaism took a “U” turn at the New Testament; maybe not everyone got the memo.

    Either you are trying to pull my chain Andrea, or you are as dumb as a box of rocks. I’m thinking if you had one more brain cell it would die of loneliness.

  91. Bill H,

    Thank you for mentioning the Reformation, which was an edict proclaimed by the POPE, as well as the Crusades, to eradicate Muslims and Jews. Ever heard a Muslim Caliph declare a war against the whole of Christianity or Judaism? I think not!

    ’nuff said!

  92. Ever heard a Muslim Caliph declare a war against the whole of Christianity or Judaism? I think not!

    Yea riiiight…….. ever watch the news?

  93. “Again, if I contributed to that with my ‘LGF bozo’ remark . . . .”

    You really don’t get it, do you? This backlash you have engendered has nothing to do with the names you have called me and others.

    It has everything to do with you supporting an organization that purports to seek a “Safe America” but, in actually, craves the destruction of the U.S. and the imposition of the caliphate.

    It has to do with your support of an organization with a substantial number of members who either would not or are not sure if they would tell law enforcement authorities if they learned about a plot by Muslims to attack targets inside America.

    You and yours have announced yourselves as our enemies. You should not be surprised if you are treated as such.

  94. to Bill H

    according to your rambling, there were already Christians living on the planet Earth before Christ was born

    i am surprised at your postings…

    yes, i have understood you that you were using the term reformation in a general sense, and you were referreing to the protestant viewpoint

    but all you are saying leaves us with the following conclusion, there is not and there has never been a Jewish faith

    all you wrote (Reformation, etc) is commonly known. trust me, no need to educate me on history and religions. i am hungarian and we learned all that at school

    btw, it is in fact a cruical (!) point that Islam is younger than Christianity

    maybe you are unaware but Islam has many holy books and one of them is the Old Testament (also the New Testament is recommended for reading)

    but, oh well you don’t know that…

    Andrea

    Bill H wrote:
    “you claim that Christianity reformed itself. well, Ch. DID reform itself, but that was the Reformation.

    first: Islam is much younger than Ch., second: Mosaic law is not Ch. but Jewish

    i can’t believe i am actually reading this…”

    Islam is much younger than Christianity…….. who cares? It’s still a broken ideology, living in the past. What’s your point?

    If your complaint with me is that there couldn’t be a Christian reformation prior to Christianity then you are of course correct. But last time I checked, the Christian Bible does contain the Old Testament, the Old Testament is the foundation of Christianity.

    If I used the term “Reformation” which means something more to you than it does me, fine….. the Reformation you speak of was when the protestants separated themselves from the wacky Catholics. Big deal, big whoop and good riddance. Merely a bump in the road, hence my statement “protestant viewpoint”. Read for comprehension much?

    Old Testament to the New Testament…….. now that was a huge “transformation” is that better for you?…. Law to Grace……call it what you want….. don’t care.

    If in fact you are talking about the 16th century Reformation you are on a different track than I am, but you also prove my point.

    The Reformation of the 16th century was a movement within Western Christendom to purge the church of MEDIEVAL ABUSES (present day Islam anyone?) and to restore the doctrines and practices that the reformers believed conformed with the Bible and the NEW TESTAMENT model of the church……. hello! Earth calling Andrea!

    “Mosaic law is Jewish not Christian” you say. Ok….. you are right…… Judaism took a “U” turn at the New Testament; maybe not everyone got the memo.

    Either you are trying to pull my chain Andrea, or you are as dumb as a box of rocks. I’m thinking if you had one more brain cell it would die of loneliness.

  95. There’s been a lot of talk on the news lately about the legalization of a form of torture as a means of extracting information from suspected terrorists.

    This is wrong… It sickens me to think that my Country is lowering itself to these standards.

    As we pretend to be such ‘good shepperds’ to the rest of the world we torture them using the excuse of “protecting our interests”.

    Our safety cannot come at the expense of our integrity. Otherwise we spray grafitti on the picture of all humanity.

    My 2 cents.

  96. Why accord the people that hate your values, with your values?

  97. I’m writing (in response to the most recent post by Chuck Martel) to correct some misperceptions about Muslims For A Safe America.

    First, the people who filled out the survey were not members of Muslims For A Safe America. Muslims For A Safe America is not a membership organization. Most of the people who filled out the survey are strangers whom I have never seen before. They have no relationship with Muslims For A Safe America.

    Second, Muslims For A Safe America does not crave the destruction of the U.S. and the imposition of the caliphate. The organization’s core principles are posted here:
    http://muslimsforasafeamerica.org/?p=16

    So why did we conduct the survey? Because there is tension in our community about these issues, and that tension is often hidden, since many people are afraid to publicly say what they think. We want to create a forum for open discussion, so that everyone’s cards are on the table, and so we can all work together to figure out where to go from here. That’s healthier for American Muslims and for all other Americans too.

  98. No offense Kamran, but I think it’s pretty clear to anybody who reads the articles presented on this site that you support genocidal terrorist gangs like Hamas.

  99. Kamran:

    You are very courageous to sponsor this suvey and to atttempt to conduct open discussion in this atmosphere–not as courageous as to attempt it in Saudi Arabia, but courageous.

    It is my general observation that unfortunately anonymous internet forums rarely retain any civility or useful dialogue past about the 20th post.

  100. Alex, what makes you think that Muslims For A Safe America supports Hamas? I think the most “favorable” point we’ve made about Hamas is that Hamas doesn’t pose a threat to America; on the other hand, Al Qaeda does pose a threat to America. That doesn’t make us supporters of Hamas’ objectives or tactics.

    Since you’ve read our pieces, you know that we normally don’t take positions on issues; instead, we just lay out arguments on all sides so that American Muslims can make up their own minds (based on information rather than emotion). We have been criticized for this, but our function is to serve as facilitators of discussion; if we take positions, then we lose credibility with one side or the other, and that weakens our ability to encourage open and honest discussion about how to make Muslims and America safer.

    The only issues that we take a position on are the ones listed in our Core Principles:
    http://muslimsforasafeamerica.org/?p=16

  101. What makes me think so? Why, here’s a good one: http://muslimsforasafeamerica.org/?p=18.

    1) Lies about Israel intentionally attacking a US Navy vessel.
    2) “Hamas has largely abided by an informal cease-fire with Israel since early 2005.” Yeah right.
    3) It argues that Hamas is a legitimate political partner when it is in fact a murderous thug group bent on the killing of every last jew in Israel – want proof, look at it’s founding chapter.

    You state that you want to present both sides.
    Well guess what: Hamas has no other side. The only side it has is covered in blood.

    You taqqiya-laden fools make me sick. Want to really fight terrorism? Start by writing a long rebuttal to f.e. this article: http://abdulhaqq.jeeran.com/ruling.html
    (if the link is broken, insert http://abdulhaqq.jeeran.com/ruling.html to the field and click “Take Me Back” then select oct 11 2004)

  102. Alex, you’re being extremely unfair. You know that we list seven “Arguments By Those Who Believe The U.S. Should DENY Aid To The Hamas Government” followed by seven “Arguments By Those Who Believe The U.S. Should PROVIDE Aid To The Hamas Government.” We do this because this is an issue that American Muslims need to be informed about.

    You took some of the “Arguments By Those Who Believe The U.S. Should PROVIDE Aid To The Hamas Government,” and you attributed them to Muslims For A Safe America.

    How come you didn’t attribute the “Arguments By Those Who Believe The U.S. Should DENY Aid To The Hamas Government” to Muslims For A Safe America?

    Let me repeat that we normally don’t take positions on issues; instead, we just lay out arguments on all sides so that American Muslims can make up their own minds (based on information rather than emotion).

  103. I’m not being unfair, I’m stating what’s written on these pages.
    To even present pro-arguments on behalf of Hamas is just too much. Why don’t you list the hugely popular among muslims theory on jewish blood libel – that is, the filthy joooos drink palestinian babies blood as kosher.

  104. I have to say, Muslims are probably the most hypocritical people on the planet. This very survey shows that most of them don’t think Muslims were behind 7/7 or 9/11, but at the same time support violence against non-Muslims and the US Government.

    Are they really that dumb?

    And this ‘it is because of US foreign policy’ is a lie. Why did MUSLIMS attack Bali? Mumbai? A school in Beslan? Other Muslims in Jordan, Egypt, Morocco, and Turkey? Why did Muslims riot over the Danish cartoons? Over the Pope’s remarks? This has nothing to do with US foreign policy, or Iraq. It is merely proof that Muslims seek to conduct violence against ALL non-Muslims.

    The way to trap a Muslim is to ask him a simple question :

    Do you want Jews to live, or to all be killed?

    They will try to change the subject or will say ‘Israel oppresses us’ or something like that. But will not state that Jews have a right to exist. This sums up the Muslim psychology.

    Muslims have shown that they have no morals whatsoever, and no ability for self-examination. They are only capable of thinking in terms of the destruction of others.

  105. Alex, our work is not about Hamas. We do not present arguments for or against Hamas. We present arguments, on all sides of various issues, regarding what’s in America’s best interests. We do this on a whole range of of issues. (For example, we’ve got debates on these topics: Should American Mosques Be Watched By The Government? Did Invading Iraq Make America Safer? Should America Torture Muslims Suspected Of Plotting Terrorist Attacks? Should Iran Have Nuclear Weapons? Should The U.S. Deny Financial Aid To A Hamas Government? Should America Allow A Muslim Country To Manage Some American Seaports? Should America Promote “Freedom and Democracy” In Muslim Countries? Is The Summer 2006 Israel-Hezbollah-Lebanon War Making America Safer? Should The Government Profile Muslims At Airports? See our Table of Contents at http://muslimsforasafeamerica.org/?p=47 )

    You cited our debate piece on the subject of how America should treat the Hamas government. But that piece was not about what’s good or bad for Hamas, or whether Hamas is good or bad. It was about what’s good or bad for America (but it does include Israeli and Palestinian perspectives, because those perspectives affect American options). You believe there’s only one side to the debate about how America should deal with Hamas, but there are people around the world arguing that another approach makes more sense for America. You can ignore that, but, as an educational organization, we cannot. Without taking sides, Muslims For A Safe America just lays it all out so people have access to all the information in one place. After reading our debate pieces, if the reader concludes that the perspective you support makes more sense for America, that’s fine.

    Now, if you believe that we are not fairly representing your side in a particular debate, then let me know what we’ve left out. (I realize that there is room for improvement in all of our debate pieces; they are all works in progress, and they are updated when people make suggestions.) But if you just don’t like the fact that we are presenting the perspectives of others also, just remember that they don’t like the fact that we are presenting your perspective.

  106. Two open questions for the defenders of Islam:

    1. In what particular (or particulars) was the “World Islamic Front Statement” issued by Shaykh Osama Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin and others on 23 February 1998 contrary to Islamic teaching?

    2. The Qur’an cites as an “excellent example” Mohammad’s rejection of unbelievers and pronouncement that “Hostility and hate have come between us forever, unless you believe in Allah only.” 60:4. Is not this sura and other similar revelations to the Prophet the reason why only two estates exist in this world for the “true” Muslim: the house of Islam (Dar al-Islam) and the house of war (Dar al-Harb)?

  107. Abu Noor al-Irlandee,

    I want to thank you for responding to my earlier posts, but I feel a few corrections need to be made.

    I don’t condone internment, make no mistake about that. What I DID say was that it won’t take much prodding to make the American people believe that is the way to separate the “wheat from the chaff”. Like I said, it’ll only take one incident, one example of how quickly trust can be lost.

    I read a lot of history, so I feel like I have some point of relavence that doesn’t enter the discussion very often. Let me expand on that a little.

    In the early 1900′s Japan was in the midsts of a societal reorganization. What emerged was a bastardized Code of Bushido warped by the military establishment to become a sort of cult of death. From the time they were school children Japanese citizens were being trained to serve, and die, for their Emporer. It became so broad that Officers began to refer to new recruits as “Issen Gorin” which translates as “One Yen, Five Rin”, which was a monatary amount needed to send a draft notice post card. It’s less then a penny.

    Schools had military officers placed on the faculty, whose job was to build the military “spirit” of the young children. Curriculum for the schools became military problems, military protocol, military organization, military music. From the time the children entered school until the time they died for their Emporer they were being told that this was their greatest calling.

    Sound Familiar?

    It seems to many a western eye that modern Islam, in particular the Wahhabi sect, have a culture of death. Young people are being taught from the earliest of ages that there is no greater glory then dying for Allah. Lavish rewards are promised in the after life for those who complete their missions.

    Do you know what it took to break the Japanese of thier culture of death? Punishment. American bombers pounded Japanese cities day and night, eventually resorting to the firebombing in the hopes that the losses and costs of the war would force the Japanese to capitulate. Most if not all military experts agree that militarily speaking, the Japanese were defeated by mid 1944. It took another 16 months and hundreds of thousands of lives lost (on both sides, although the majority of the losses were to Japanese civilians) to MAKE the Japanese see the end of the tunnel.

    Is this what it will take to educate Islam? I say educate because that is what MUST happen. Too many muslims are being “educated” in corrupt madrasahs by people who only hate. Much like pre-war Japan, children in the Madrasah are being taught that the Jew isn’t human, the American is a Great Satan. This can go on no longer. It is only through education and reform that Islam can rightfully take its place as one of the worlds great religions.

    What do you, Abu Noor al-Irlandee, think will happen when, not if, an Islamic extremist finally detonates a nuclear device (likely of Iranian origin) in an American city? What will the American response need to be? How many American lives will be lost in the original explosion, and how many innocent muslims will be killed because of the actions of a few extremists?

  108. Abu Noor al-Irlandee November 2, 2006 at 1:55 am Reply

    C.W.,

    The verse you cited (60:4) does not cite Muhammad pbuh as an example but Abraham (peace be upon him) as an example to follow.

    Was this just a typo on your part? Do you see Abraham as an example or do you have a problem with that?

    Peace.

  109. Fascinating that while only 149 out of 307 respondents acknowledge that Al-Qaeda is a real organization that is trying to attack America (question 12), fully 228 respondents believe that Al-Qaeda is attacking America because it hates American involvement in the Muslim world (question 14).

    This indicates that over 1/4 of American Muslims polled both acknowledge that Al-Queda is attacking America and deny that the organization is real.

    How telling.

  110. Abu Noor al-Irlandee November 3, 2006 at 4:35 am Reply

    MJK, (and many others who have alluded to this contradiction)

    What do you think it tells us?

    Well, there is no doubt a contradiction, I think you are overstating it. It is more a function of the wording of the questions and the fact that people want to answer every question and they focus on certain aspects of the question.

    So, while implicitly saying Al-Qaida attacks America because of its policies would mean that Al-Qaida exists, there was no option to answer the question Al-Qaida does not exist so instead the answerers focused on this question of motives and wanted to make a statement that a)U.S. foreign policy is hated by Muslims across the spectrum and b) this notion of Muslim hatred for our freedoms is ridiculous and silly.

    Other possible reasons for other contradictions are that many people answer questions based on what they wish were true rather than what is (especially if they have no way of knowing what is or isn’t REALLY true) and the fact that people often answer based on either what they think they are supposed to say or as I mentioned above they want to send some message which may be related to, but is somewhat tangential to the question.

    For the sake of reality it is obvious to any thinking and educated person that many Muslims hate and some have attacked America or Americans due to U.S. foreign policy. It is also rather obvious that while something that has been called Al-Qa’ida does exist, most people’s notions of it and the media’s picture of it are vastly different to what its reality is, as far as I can tell.

    And Allaah knows best.

  111. Actually, muslims never needed a bad foreign policy in order to fight the west the past 1400 years. They don’t need it now. It’s a good excuse though.

    Deport all muslims. Let muslims prosper in their own countries, give me back mine.

  112. Abu Noor al-Irlandee November 3, 2006 at 11:02 pm Reply

    Alex,

    The complete ignorance of the history of both the Muslims and “the West” — (whatever you mean by that) reflected in your above comment is mind-boggling.

    Peace.

  113. To: Abu Noor al-Irlandee

    While I think that much of your analysis is reasonable, I think we would also likely agree that there is a constituency of those polled who are so polarized that they would have reflexively responded to any question posed with whatever answer allowed them to blame American foreign policy or disavow Muslim responsilbility for any evil in the world while ignoring any contradictions that those responses might raise.

    I think most of us would would also agree that patently ridiculous suggestions like “deport all Muslims” are not constructive and do not advance this dialogue.

  114. Abu Noor al-Irlandee November 4, 2006 at 3:44 am Reply

    MJK,

    What you say is true, as far as I can tell.

    God knows best.

    Peace,

    Abu Noor

  115. Very devisive yet statistically insiginificant poll (bet you a dollar I could wildy varying results depending on who I gave the poll to) and the questions are clearly designed to illicit results that many would find shocking or be angered by.

    Take the second question for example – do you think that most devout Christians would place America before God or God before America? Are national and religious identities equivalent or are they actually seperate things that cannot really be judged in an either/or type of way? Also note we have no clue from the numbers given as to how long those polled have been American citizens or for that matter how long they’ve been Muslims (could mean the zeal of the newly converted or not being able to fully identify with America yet), nor whether considering one’s religion more important than one’s nationality in any way suggests disloyalty to said nation. A Christian may see his or her relationship to God as far more important than his or her nationality but that would hardly brand him or her a traitor, why then is a different standard to be applied if the respondent is a Muslim?

    As to the questions involving 9/11 – well it isn’t just Muslims and conspiracy theorists who’ve raised serious questions based upon the rather flawed investigation process into this tragic event and the government’s refusal to be transparent on the issue (which could equally be seen as either trying to avoid blame, thinking it’s important for security reasons or covering up unpleasant facts) doesn’t help. Further it’s not like a fake terrorist attack is unprecedented in world history – Operation Northwoods for example suggests a willingness by the powers that be in US to at least plan such things.
    Judging by WWII and Vietnam it seems that the US tends to do things along this line when they wish to be involved in a war without admitting that they are playing the role of aggressors.

    That said I’d like to believe that the US government wasn’t involved in the attacks, but I can’t see enough unambiguous evidence to say this with much confidence and can equally accept that others might like to believe that Al-Qaeda wasn’t involved and I can see that there is enough ambiguous evidence that they can make a logical case for it. I’d say that very few people would really be in a position to know the facts for themselves and other than that everyone is just taking it on faith – whether that’s faith in what your government or the media or in what religious leaders are telling you. I’d say that all of these sources have historically proven rather dubious at best.

    Finally I’d like to adress the questions about whether violence is acceptable (and against whom) and whether respondents would alert the authorities to a possible attack if they had information. Firstly saying that you think something is justifiable or acceptable isn’t the same as doing it or having the desire to do it. It isn’t even the same as saying that something is the right or best or most moral thing to do. It may well just mean that you can see where someone might be coming from if they performed said action, and given that the US has caused the death of far more Muslims both historically and recently than the reverse it may not be an unacceptable stance to take. Personally I’d see it as a far more acceptable a stance than those preaching destruction of all Muslims. Further the US tends to play fast and loose with international law worldwide, it is quite happy to impose standards on others that it doesn’t itself meet and is quite happy to use violence (covertly or openly) to force others to play the way it wants. That being the case many might feel that since the US has frequently supported terrorists and has engaged in terrorist acts it can hardly complain when others do the same to it. Turn about is fair play or so it’s said.

    Last point (I promise) – how do we know that those who responded that they wouldn’t alert the authorities responded that way because they are afraid of those authorities? Given that in many cases the US has essentially decided to ignore the legal rights of those involved in terrorist cases, how would you feel as a Muslim about going in to report such a thing? Would you be filled with confidence that they might not somehow try to implicate you in the very attacks you’re reporting? Even if you’re totally uninvolved, this administration’s use of torture might just tempt you to keep your head down and hope for the best as elaborate confessions can be extracted from even the most innocent person under torture. Further knowing that any plans for such an attack might be used by the media and the government to smear all Muslims might tempt you to keep quiet – after all most planned attacks seem to fail, be aborted or are uncovered anyway, why involve yourself when you have plenty to lose? What if you’re not taken seriously and then in danger from those attempting to carry out the attack? Finally not going to the authorities is not the same as not attempting to put a stop to something or agreeing with it… is it possible that some of those who wouldn’t report a planned attack might well attempt to discourage it?

  116. What if I don’t want to understand your religion?? This IS still a free country. I don’t want your views imposed on me! I’m proud to be an American, and my flag flies on my front porch everyday since 9/11 and it will continue to. By the way…. Israel was created in a peaceful and legal process by the United Nations, created out of lands the Ottoman Turks lost when they were defeated in World War I. Israel has done more with it’s little strip of desert, than any other middle eastern nation. Shame on you all for your hatred and bigotry.

  117. Abu Noor al-Irlandee November 6, 2006 at 11:27 pm Reply

    Bazza,

    You make a lot of excellent points. Very perceptive.

    The only one I would disagree is your first point, I don’t think it was deliberately designed to get results that people would be angered or shocked by. Of course when you discuss such controversial issues, it could certainly be predicted that some people will interpret the results in a way that will shock and anger them. Others, like you, will go a little deeper and realize what could be behind the answers. I think Kamran and Muslims for a Safe America’s purpose was to bring these issues into the open and have honest discussion rather than avoiding discussion because the issues are controversial.

    As you see by the response to many, Muslims have good reason to believe that whatever they say about these issues will be unacceptable to a certain segment of the population. That segment has been vocal and is politically powerful. We need the voices of others who do want honest discussion even if they may not agree with what some in the Muslim community feel to make a space for these issues to be discussed.

    It is better for everyone if issues are discussed openly rather than creating an atmosphere where people feel even their very thoughts are suppressed, which just leads further to alienation from society.

    God knows best.

  118. Islam is an outdated and primative religion. At least Christianity revamped its thinking for modern and peaceful times. If these individuals who consider themselves Muslim before American then LEAVE and go back to your own country so we can live in peace. Islam must either changes its backward, extreme, violent, and igornant thinking and beliefs or it must and will be eradicated. Regarding the comment made about a Christian hijacking a plane and flying it into Mecca…..maybe that would send a wake up call to all Muslims…extremists or not….
    I have much more I could and wouldn’t mind saying but its become to complicated….These Muslim extremists options are obvious..continue to kill American soldiers and civilians and we will search and destroy you. Plain and simple.

    In God we Trust

  119. To Nadja: “What is even scarier is how many non-Muslim Americans are paranoid and scared.” Not true. I am not a Muslim and trust me, I am not the least bit paranoid of scared and I believe many other Americans would agree. If anything you Muslim Americans are the ones who need to be scared, don’t forget the fact you are in our countrty. Get that straight. 14 words.

    In God we Trust

  120. To Abu Noor al-Irlandee:

    You failed to answer my questions, choosing instead to deflect by quibbling over the quote. At that, your deflection is disingenuous (unless you are ignorant of the fact that Islamic scholars link Abraham and Mohammad in the verse quoted:”There is for you an excellent example, a pattern in Abraham and those with him[ie: Mohammad], …). See, e.g., Qur’an 33.21 “Verily in the Messenger of Allah you have a good example for him who looks unto Allah and the Last Day.”
    Qur’an 4:64 “We sent not a messenger but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah.”
    Qur’an 4:80 “He who obeys the Messenger obeys Allah.”
    Qur’an 5:92 “Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and beware!”
    Qur’an 24:53 “Say: ‘Swear not; Obedience is (more) reasonable.’ Say: ‘Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger.”
    Qur’an 48:10 “Verily those who swear allegiance to you (Muhammad), indeed swear their allegiance to Allah.”

    Please, the questions to be answered are straight forward and could have been put just as clearly without the quote; can you answer in the same fashion?

  121. To Abu Noor al-Irlandee,
    Fair point, I shouldn’t have second guessed the motives of those behind the questions so hastily. That said the simplistic questions in the poll still make it seem rather divisive and, given many of the responses seen on here I’d suggest that this is the way it at least comes across whether it was the intention of those who created the poll’s questions or not. My point isn’t to shy away from controversial questions but rather to ask them properly and in depth because without a proper context and frame of reference simple answers to controversial and complex questions can be rather to open to biased reinterpretations that are detrimental to people’s understanding rather than improving it. These questions seem to unfortunately play into the hands of those whose opinion is warped by hatred, fear and/or a desire to exploit the situation. While there is a need for open dialogue there is also a need to make that dialogue meaningful and not open to being misleading or to being used by people who wish to mislead. With a poll it’s hard to make things that clear of course, perhaps a section for comments would have been a way of acheiving a greater level of clarification as to exactly what respondents meant and why they felt the way that they do?

    To various people who commented about Israel,
    it’s a complex and contentious issue but if you look at it Israel was never founded on the lines suggested but never implemented by the UN – they instead took far more of the land than the UN (already rather biasedly) suggested, including international territory, by force. They took over land that included some of the holiest sites in the Islamic tradition that they were never supposed to have (UN ordered that land to be under international administration, Israel ignored this). They launched terrorist attacks against the British prior to all of this when the British attempted to curtail the illegal immigration of thousands of Jewish people to the area, a process that had started alienating and sidelining the previous Muslim majority, Arabic population and caused civil unrest. Further the Zionist claim on the land was shaky at best (and non-existant from most points of view) to begin with and in large part was given due to guilt over the holocaust instead of being given a home land in Europe (which would have been reasonable given Germany’s key responsibility). The decision was and is still at odds with both the UN’s principles and international land aquisition principles. Israel has following this largely ignored international law and opinion (much like the US does) whenever it suits them (how bout them illegal nuclear weapons then? Can’t call them WMD’s cause they belong to a US ally?), has committed acts of state sponsored terrorism at least as much as Hamas and Hezbollah and has slaughtered many, many times the number of Palestinian civilians than the reverse. It’s quite common for Palestinian children to be shot for throwing rocks at Israeli soldiers. Further, given American supply of arms, Israel represents a far greater military power and have used this to bully the surrounding nations while acting like totally innocent and white handed victims. Members of Mossad have, by their own accounts, also launched terrorist attacks and attempted to place the blame on Islamic nations in order to twist public opinion in their favour. They also continue with propaganda that seems to suggest that anyone who doesn’t agree with the state of Israel must be antisemitic.

    Now I don’t agree with anyone preaching genocide, but I do understand that many people do have a legitimate cause for grievance against the state of Israel. The basis of a lasting peace is not taking everything you want by force and then using violence to make other’s accept your original act of theft without any form of reasonable recompense offered.

  122. Israel was never founded on the lines suggested but never implemented by the UN – they instead took far more of the land than the UN (already rather biasedly) suggested, including international territory, by force.

    // Correct. When arabs attacked in force, and were defeated, the victor captured more land. As you may know, the arabs attacked several more times and were subsequently always defeated. Victor makes the rules. Sorry buddy, that’s how it goes.

    They took over land that included some of the holiest sites in the Islamic tradition that they were never supposed to have (UN ordered that land to be under international administration, Israel ignored this).

    // Jerusalem is not a muslim holy city. It has never been of any importance when the muslims have held it. It has never been a muslim capital. The whole claim is based on Muhammad supposedly visiting Jerusalem during the night journey, when in fact he only “visited” the “furthest mosque”. There was no Islam in Jerusalem during that period. Portraying Jerusalem as some sort of Islamic holy city is but a mere political ploy, a hoax, a fraud, with no historical basis.

    They launched terrorist attacks against the British prior to all of this when the British attempted to curtail the illegal immigration of thousands of Jewish people to the area, a process that had started alienating and sidelining the previous Muslim majority, Arabic population and caused civil unrest.

    // In fact, these terrorist attacks were launched by rogue jewish extremists. The jewish majority denounced them publicly and furthermore, these groups were forcibly disbanded upon the formation of Israel. Nice lying there, by the way. Twist the facts when they don’t suit your agenda.

    Further the Zionist claim on the land was shaky at best (and non-existant from most points of view) to begin with and in large part was given due to guilt over the holocaust instead of being given a home land in Europe (which would have been reasonable given Germany’s key responsibility).

    // The Zionist claim to Israel goes back (currently) 5767 years. The arab-imperialist claim goes back around 1000 years, on false premises. The Zionists have written historical texts to support their claims. The arab-imperialists have lies and fabrications.

    The decision was and is still at odds with both the UN’s principles and international land aquisition principles. Israel has following this largely ignored international law and opinion (much like the US does) whenever it suits them (how bout them illegal nuclear weapons then? Can’t call them WMD’s cause they belong to a US ally?),

    // UN has no principles. It is as toothless as the League of Nations before it. It is controlled by the arab states (because they have the oil). Israel does not need to hold on to any agreements if it’s enemies do not also. Further, Israel is the only democracy in the entire middle-east (Iraq is the 2nd). Also, cite verified proof that Israel has nuclear weapons. Oh, I forgot. YOU CAN’T.

    has committed acts of state sponsored terrorism at least as much as Hamas and Hezbollah

    // Wrong. Israel is the only nation that has been stripped of it’s right to defend it’s sovereign territory. Fascist pro-arab-imperialists like yourself label Israel’s self-defence as state terrorism, which tells anybody who cares all they need to know about your agenda.

    and has slaughtered many, many times the number of Palestinian civilians than the reverse.

    // The (undisputable) fact that more Palestinian civilians have died only tells one fact, and that is the fact that these heroic martyrs like to hide in civilian populations. A more pessimistic viewer may also think that these so-called “civilians” are nothing but mere terrorists themselves, as nicely portrayed by last weeks episode with the women and the fighters around the mosque.

    It’s quite common for Palestinian children to be shot for throwing rocks at Israeli soldiers.

    // It is? In what world? You may cite references that clearly demonstrate that Israeli soldiers shooting rock-throwing children is a common occurence.

    Further, given American supply of arms, Israel represents a far greater military power and have used this to bully the surrounding nations while acting like totally innocent and white handed victims.

    // More twisting of facts. In 1948, the arab nations had vastly superior militaries by any account. They failed. They still had superior militaries decades later when they tried again. They failed again. Israel only needs to have a strong military because of the vicious, rabid dogs around it that will not leave it alone for one second. As if that weren’t enough, USA has never sold A-quality material to Israel, they have always been 2nd class handouts.

    Members of Mossad have, by their own accounts, also launched terrorist attacks and attempted to place the blame on Islamic nations in order to twist public opinion in their favour.

    // I’m sure they have. Sigh.

    They also continue with propaganda that seems to suggest that anyone who doesn’t agree with the state of Israel must be antisemitic.

    // No propaganda is needed to realize that most (not all) people who “disagree” with the right of existence of Israel are in fact disgusting, vile, fascist anti-semites.

  123. I’m glad to see SOMEONE finally referance the FACT that it was the Arab states that surround Israel that started the several wars in the past 50 years. As a result of aggression by those enemy states, Israel gained possession of land previously belonging to the DEFEATED INVADERS. You Islamic apologists can “spin” all you want, but history paints a very different picture.

    By the way…was it Gods Will that a 14 year old boy living in Iraq was beheaded because he was a christian?
    Allahu Akbar My Ass!

    God Bless America.

  124. //Correct. When arabs attacked in force, and were defeated, the victor captured more land. As you may know, the arabs attacked several more times and were subsequently always defeated. Victor makes the rules. Sorry buddy, that’s how it goes.

    *Actually several arabic countries attacked AFTER Israel declared it’s new borders that were in contravention to the UN decision. Israel then captured more land from then (which I have no problem with, it’s the initial theft of international land and the questionable status of Israel’s creation that bothers me). By the way, since Haganah was active since 1909 and later terrorist/underground groups active long before the war, doesn’t that strike you as aggressive action? Also it seems to me that you’re saying might makes right then? Not exactly a very moral stand and one that justifies pretty much any act.

    //Jerusalem is not a muslim holy city. It has never been of any importance when the muslims have held it. It has never been a muslim capital. The whole claim is based on Muhammad supposedly visiting Jerusalem during the night journey, when in fact he only “visited” the “furthest mosque”. There was no Islam in Jerusalem during that period. Portraying Jerusalem as some sort of Islamic holy city is but a mere political ploy, a hoax, a fraud, with no historical basis.

    *Incorrect. Muslims consider the land west of the river Jordan sacred as mentioned in the Qur’an (5:20-21). Early Islamic tradition by Az-Zujaj describes Holy Land as “Damascus, Palestine, and a bit of Jordan”, and by Qatada as “the Levant (ash-Sham)” and by Maad ibn Jabal as “the area between al-Arish and the Euphrates”, and by Ibn Abbas as “the land of Jericho”. Within the Holy Land, Jerusalem is considered to be the holiest city. Its significance emerges not only because of its association with the Israelite Prophets revered in Islam, but also because of the Isra and the Miraj, (the spiritual journeys of the Prophet Muhammad to and from Jerusalem).

    In Arabic, the city of Jerusalem is commonly known as “al-Quds”, meaning “the Holy”.

    I note you’re not arguing the fact that they took this over illegally and by force, this was supposed to be international territory.

    //In fact, these terrorist attacks were launched by rogue jewish extremists. The jewish majority denounced them publicly and furthermore, these groups were forcibly disbanded upon the formation of Israel. Nice lying there, by the way. Twist the facts when they don’t suit your agenda.

    *Actually Irgun (responsible for the King David hotel) eventually became a legitimate Israeli political party, the Herut. Noone was ever punished over launching terrorist attacks. The Haganah, which also carried out terrorist attacks and organised massive illegal immigration to the area – it was eventually disbanded but many of it’s top members became leaders of the new Israeli state, including Ariel Sharon, Yitzhak Ravin (ironicly Ravin was later killed by a Jewish extremist opposed to the Oslo peace accord) and several others. By the way, aren’t most of the people here discussing bias against all Muslims because of the actions of a few extremists? Doesn’t Israel keep launching wars against civilian populaces on the basis of the actions of a few extremists?

    // The Zionist claim to Israel goes back (currently) 5767 years. The arab-imperialist claim goes back around 1000 years, on false premises. The Zionists have written historical texts to support their claims. The arab-imperialists have lies and fabrications.

    *The Zionist claim is not a continuous one – within the last 5767 years the Jewish people were largely driven from the land and others occupied it legitimately. Also the Arabic people are traceably geneticly and archaeologically back to people who owned the land prior to the supposed Jewish invasion of it even 5767 years ago (going by written documents is of course unreliable, particularly religious documents), they trace back to the Canaanites. This is true of Arabic Jews and Muslims but most of those who illegally immigrated to British Mandated Palestine and greatly swelled the Jewish population before the creation of Israel (and who still make up most of the population) didn’t have any claim on the land as they were European Jews who had never historically occupied the land, sorry land rights don’t get passed down on the basis of beliefs under any legal system in the world.

    // UN has no principles. It is as toothless as the League of Nations before it. It is controlled by the arab states (because they have the oil). Israel does not need to hold on to any agreements if it’s enemies do not also. Further, Israel is the only democracy in the entire middle-east (Iraq is the 2nd). Also, cite verified proof that Israel has nuclear weapons. Oh, I forgot. YOU CAN’T.

    *Yeah, I forgot that the UN is now a ‘toothless tiger’ to Americans after it had the gall to disagree with an immoral war of aggression. Still you can’t claim that they have a right to the land because the UN said so and then say it’s okay that they then ignore the UN’s decisions, including even the one visa vie the creation of a Jewish state. That’s hypocrisy. As for the ‘verified proof’ that Israel had nuclear weapons, hah, the US didn’t need that to invade Iraq. No, Israel hasn’t come forward and admitted it – it’s just that Mordechai Vanunu, who worked for their nuclear program, did. He’s still being punished for it, having served over 18 years in jail and continuing to be detained and harassed by the government. Also in 1998 Shimon Peres admitted that they had “built a nuclear option” in reference to questions about secret nuclear programs but it’s claimed this could refer to nuclear power generation (although in context this is implausible, the comment was fairly clear). A US Defense Intelligence Agency report leaked in a 2004 book claimed Israel has 82 nuclear weapons, intelligence info in the late 1990′s put the number somewhere between 75-130. Also on the note of WMDs: In 1993, the U.S. Congress Office of Technology Assessment WMD proliferation assessment recorded Israel as a country generally reported as having undeclared offensive chemical warfare capabilities.

    // Wrong. Israel is the only nation that has been stripped of it’s right to defend it’s sovereign territory. Fascist pro-arab-imperialists like yourself label Israel’s self-defence as state terrorism, which tells anybody who cares all they need to know about your agenda.

    *How have they been stripped of anything? Didn’t they just go to war again on the basis of a few extremists in Palestine and Lebannon? Further sovereign territory implies that it has a legitmate claim on the land which is quite an arguable point – also note that on the same basis Israel ignores Palestinian sovereignty and crosses the border to attack at will. As for calling me a facist pro-arab-imperialist, that’s simply an ad hominem attack that shows that you logically defend your position and must resort to purile insults. Further launching rocket attacks into civilian areas is terrorism by any reasonable definition.

    // The (undisputable) fact that more Palestinian civilians have died only tells one fact, and that is the fact that these heroic martyrs like to hide in civilian populations. A more pessimistic viewer may also think that these so-called “civilians” are nothing but mere terrorists themselves, as nicely portrayed by last weeks episode with the women and the fighters around the mosque.

    *Well at least you admitted to the facts that Israel has done the majority of the killing (by the way I agree with neither side using violence against civilian populaces). Sadly you then go on to blame it on the extremists as if that in some way freed Israel of the moral responsibility to avoid injuring innocent parties. The attempt isn’t made even to avoid it in most cases. Then of course you go on (though not boldly enough to claim it as your own opinion) to suggest all civilian deaths were actually militants and terrorists and we happily wash Israel’s hands clean of all that blood. Protestors and rock throwing kids that young, panicky Israeli soldiers shoot are referred to as ‘human shields’ by Israel who of course blame all deaths on both sides on Palestine. Terrorists make similar claims when they hit civilian targets, really there is no difference between the two in this respect save scale since Israel has more money than rather weak militant groups.

    // It is? In what world? You may cite references that clearly demonstrate that Israeli soldiers shooting rock-throwing children is a common occurence.

    *Yes. The real world that would be. I’ll give you a few references (which is more than you’ve done so far I note, if you’re going to ask for cited references then you should provide some yourself?) and if you’re interested in the truth of the matter then I’m sure you’ll continue to look.

    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/101000-02.htm will take you to a Portland Press Herald article about a 17 year old kid shot by Israeli forces while trying to help an injured friend during a rock throwing incident.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1477729,00.html one officer was suspended (not exactly fair recompense for murder) for the killing of these two rock throwing kids.

    http://www.pcusa.org/pcnews/oldnews/2000/00378.htm an article which mentions several such incidents reported in a Presbytarian news service.

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/july-dec00/mid_east.html more incidents mentioned.

    That’s just a very brief search result, I could go on. It’s common enough unfortunately when you have an oppressive occupation of an area and young soldiers with guns who react to protestors and kids who throw rocks… in fact that kind of thing caused the first intifada by many accounts.

    // More twisting of facts. In 1948, the arab nations had vastly superior militaries by any account. They failed. They still had superior militaries decades later when they tried again. They failed again. Israel only needs to have a strong military because of the vicious, rabid dogs around it that will not leave it alone for one second. As if that weren’t enough, USA has never sold A-quality material to Israel, they have always been 2nd class handouts.

    *Actually prior to the 1948 war David Ben-Gurion was told conservatively that the chance of winning a war against the Arab states was about even. The Arabic nations also knew that the military might of the Yishuv was a force to be reckoned with and were counting on a protracted war that might eventually wear down the other side, this suggests that both sides realised who was the superior military force. Further part of Israel’s reason for pursuing military campaigns was to seize control of the area – it wasn’t just a response to attack it was an attempt to gain control a continuous portion of land on borders already decided and planned for before the start of hostilities.That said the Israeli plan (Plan Dalet) didn’t call for ethnic cleansing, merely expulsion of Palestinians and it is likely that events like the Deir Yassin massacare were not deliberate attempts at genocide. Both sides committed atrocities although Irgun and Haganah have been found to have been responsible for more massacares of civilians than the opposing forces.

    In the next conflict, the 1956 war Suez Crisis, Israel was allied with Britain and France to invade Egyption controlled territory in order to protect economic interests. It’s interesting to note that the US tried to calm the conflict and find a peaceful resolution in this case. The combined assault by Israel, Britain and France was successful militarily but the US finally forced an end to hostilities by threatening Britain with destabilization of the pound, Canada and Australia also opposed Britain, Israel and Frances actions.

    The Six Day war was the next conflict, and again Israel launched the hostilities with a supposedly preemptive strike against Egypt on the basis that it was blockading Israeli vessels from passing through the Straight of Tiran (Egyptian and Saudi Arabia waters note). Other Arab forces then attacked Israel. At the time many of Nasser’s (the Egyptian leader) military commanders believed that Egypt’s army (total troop numbers 150,000) was in no state to fight against Israel. A third of it’s troops (50-70,000 troops), including it’s elite and veteran units, were involved in a civil war in Yemen. Nasser was also a poor military strategist, Israel with it’s emphasis on intelligence operations and it’s militarily experienced leaders were far better organized and didn’t continuously change objectives. Jordan’s armies (55,000 total troop numbers) were also embroiled heavily in Yemen. Syria also joined in and had a total of about 75,000 troops. All told the numbers fighting Israel were probably less than 200,000 and the Israeli army numbered about 264,000 including reserve forces. Further as James Reston, writing in the New York Times on 23 May 1967 noted, “In discipline, training, morale, equipment and general competence his [Nasser's] army and the other Arab forces, without the direct assistance of the Soviet Union, are no match for the Israelis… Even with 50,000 troops and the best of his generals and air force in Yemen, he has not been able to work his way in that small and primitive country, and even his effort to help the Congo rebels was a flop.”

    The next war was the Yom Kippur war and in this one Israel WAS attacked first (in contrast to the last two and arguably also to the 1948 war) and taken by surprise. However after the first few days of fighting Israel fought back incredibly hard and managed to regain more of an equal footing after being initially caught off guard. It’s forces were far more organised, better armed and trained and more numerous and once it was recovered from surprise it was able to shift the tide of battle in it’s favour rapidly. In the end Israel gained more ground than it lost but the fact that it had been caught off guard did a fair bit to heal wounded Egyptian pride over their defeat in the Six Day War and the combination of this and the fact that Israel’s ability to recover from about the best position that Egypt could have hoped to have for an attack (convincing most of the Arabic nations that Israel wouldn’t be conquered militarily) led to a quick ceasefire, peace negotiations and a normalization of relations between Egypt and Israel (the first time an Arabic nation had recognised the state of Israel formally). Neither side in this conflict received direct support from allies but the Soviets supplied arms and indirect support to Egypt while the US did the same for Israel. The US support for Israel caused an anti-American response from OPEC, led by Saudi Arabia, that eventually led to oil embargoes and the 1973 energy crisis.

    The First Lebanon War in 1982 was Israel invading Lebanon, some 17,825 Arabs (military and civilian) lost their lives as compared to about 675 Israeli soldiers. In response to this attack Hezbollah formed intially to resist the Israeli occupation.

    The first Intifada (or as it’s often referred to ‘the war of stones’, so named because of rock throwing civilians killed by Israeli forces) was essentially protestors being attacked by battle trained soldiers inexperienced in crowd control. Frequently they had no riot control munitions and used live fire on unarmed demonstrators. 1,162 Palestinians were killed (241 of them children) as compared to 160 Israelis (5 of them children).

    The subsequent, ongoing Intifada has again been a case of protestors vs Israeli soldiers and was caused by a combination of frustration at the peace process’s lack of progress and anger and resentment at Ariel Sharon’s ill timed and seemingly provocative visit to the mosque compound at the Temple Mount (allegedly to investigate claims of archaeological vandalism by Muslims, though why the Prime Minister would be involved in that is beyond my imagination, and with a cohort of hundreds of riot police and body guards). It, like the first Intifada, has been more a series of violent police and military actions as well as violent protests and militant/terrorist attacks than an actual war. Casulty numbers are controversial – it has been claimed that some casulties on the Palestianian side were caused by infighting amongst different groups and people murdered due to accusations of disloyalty to Palestinian interests, on the other hand in these and other Palestinian casulties most of those over the age of 15 were listed as combatants without any real attempt to distinguish whether they were or not. However Palestinian deaths again far outnumber Israeli casulties and by any reasonable estimation this is remains true for civilian death tolls as well as combatants. Many thousands more have been injured on both sides.

    This brings us to the latest war, with Israel again starting the conflict based on the actions of a few extremists. The death toll is probably unreliable at present but in addition hundreds of thousands have been made refugees and many are still missing and unaccounted for. Another prominent event during this latest campaign is the apparently deliberate targeting of a UNTSO position by an Israeli precision-guided missile that killed 4 unarmed UN observers.

    Which war exactly would you be talking about where ‘poor defenceless’ Israel was at the mercy of larger, better armed forces? Not one that occured in reality it would seem. Israel has been the attacker in most of the wars it has fought. Your labeling the surrounding Arab people as ‘vicious, rabid dogs’ is provocative and racist and your suggestion that they won’t leave Israel alone leaves out the fact that Israel is more often than not the aggressor and that it occupies land illegitmately. Your suggestion that America sells Israel only poor quality military items is factually incorrect (they even have semi-autonomous attack drones which is hardly low tech) and rather irrelevant since even old American military technology far excedes that of the surrounding nations and that Israel has a far larger organised military.

    // I’m sure they have. Sigh.

    *One of those invovled in the 1986 La Belle disco bombing was an agent of Mossad, Mohammed Amairi, who has fled to asylum in Norway and, after the intercession of Mossad, had the warrant for his arrest from Berlin lifted. Through his lawyer Amairi has admitted to working for Mossad, an unforced admission since he’d already gotten away scott free. Yasser Chraidi, a Lebanese man, was scapegoated for the bombing and later his sentence on appeal (after evidence of Mossad involvement came to light) was reversed in a German court due to a complete lack of real evidence against him. It might be remembered that this bombing led the US to launch attacks on Lebanon.

    Although I expect that a court of law isn’t good enough for you as evidence. Sigh. Maybe you’ll say the judge must have hated Jewish people?

    Side note: I don’t buy the propaganda statement by some commentators that Mossad had anything to do with 9/11, sounds totally implausible to me.

    // No propaganda is needed to realize that most (not all) people who “disagree” with the right of existence of Israel are in fact disgusting, vile, fascist anti-semites.

    *Well you’ve already called me a facist, pro-arab-imperialist and now I guess you’re adding in the disgusting, vile and anti-semitic bit? The fact that you have already resorted to such slanderous antics kinda proves my point… I’m not pro-arab, pro-imperialist and I’m certainly not anti-semitic or facist (Actually I’m descended from Jewish people who fled Germany during the holocaust, one of my great uncles was one of the first people gassed at Aushwitz so I’m a little offended by that) nor am I Arabic (Australian, mate) or Muslim (I do not believe in God in the Abrahamic tradition at all), I just don’t agree with the creation of an Israeli state on other people’s land nor with the disproportionate violence that has been done to keep that stolen land and even increase the size of conquered territory.

    Incidentally I note that the Muslims commenting on this site have not been the ones who are preaching hatred. Seems to be largely American’s talking about deporting people on the basis of religion, incarcerating people on the basis of religion and even in some cases radioactively cleansing people who they deem as being like cancer on the human race on the basis of religion.

  125. Oh and one more thing, you’re also wrong about Israel being the first and only democracy in the Middle East (Iraq is an anarchic state right now). The first would be Turkey, a democratic, secular, constitutional republic whose political system was established in 1923 after the fall of the Ottoman Empire under the leadership of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk.

    If you discount Turkey (3% of it lies in Europe though by most standards it’s Middle Eastern) then there are also a number of constitutional monarchies (Britain is a constitutional monarchy) in the Middle East: Bahrain, Kuwait, Morocco and Jordan.

  126. Lord alone knows why you humans get so caught up in this stuff.
    I applaud some of the views here and to further shed some light, here is something to think about.
    Most of us believe in some form of God, Allah, or Supreme being.
    I have met this Supreme being often, everyday in fact.
    He/She has many different names, and He/She has never asked anyone to harm another in His/Hers name.
    It is the very lack of knowing this Supreme Being that leads humans to cry out in His/Her name that they must defent Him/Her through violance and pain.
    Makes me chuckle greatly at the stupidity of the human condition.

    So on behalf of the staff of the Supreme Being, who work tirelessly to wake the sleeping, I have been asked to relay a message.

    ‘It is not the colour of a mans skin, or of his eyes which makes him a brother. It is not the name he uses to call to me which makes him my chosen son. It is not in my favour for him to strike at my other son who calls me by a different name in upon a different day. For the truth is we are one, both you and he and I. You are striking at your own heart when you strike at your brother and you are striking at mine.’

    I don’t care if your a Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jedi or any other mix of human idea’s. The journey does not start by drawing circles in the sand and saying if your in this circle then your right and everyone else is wrong.

    Those are out dated idea’s. They never worked, never will.
    I forgive those who are not yet able to wake from the illusion’s which hold them. Death is not the enemy of life but rather its companion. Killing one another will not make us stronger or make out illusions more true. Now living together, learning to undo the circles in the sand, well now there would be a challenge.

    Make Love not War folks.
    It starts in your heart.

  127. im a american muslim who is also a kid i may not know much but im learning from observing the people around me and in america i see kindness in the non-muslims and i have told them im muslim and yet there still kind. and i think democracy is a great way of government, and i have just moved to pakistan and i see hate greed and all the things i hear is from anger and they think democracy is the worst,but they do no undstand, the muslims here dont respeat any one. i see beggers all over the streets asking for money yet only one or two muslims give. i dont know why they act like this, but i think we muslims should fix our selfs and become the great muslims that i read in the books about islam.we should not care of the non-muslims at these time we should fix our selfs, we should not care what they think. after we fix our selfs we should show them the kindness of islam, and how great we are. I read that muhammad peace be upon him told us to spread islam but how can we do this when we are selfs are not pure in heart.

  128. I think some interpretation of the survey results may have been useful.

    For example, many Americans resented the fact that American Muslims saw themselves as muslims first. In fact, based on theological reasons, many Muslims may be surprised that so many saw themselves as American first.

    It may be recalled that Islam is a universal religion. Nation states and tribes are largly seen as vehicles of recognizing each other. Accordingly, many religious people will see themselves in terms of religion first– being Iraqi or Saudi or Iranian or Pakistani will come second.

  129. have any of you heard about the Muslim man living in Tulsa, OK who was expelled from his mosque (and has received death threats) for having written an editorial condemning al-Qaeda and other similar terrorist organizations and calling upon Muslims to denounce terrorist violence? are you willing to criticize your own as he was, or will you seek to justify his expulsion? your choice will be instructive…

    here’s a link to the story:
    http://radiohounds.com/?p=1780

    [Moderator’s Note: Channel 9′s coverage of this incident can be found at http://www.newsok.com/video/text/64941/?template=news/main and at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbkrKH7SCio&eurl= ]

  130. hi to all i just want to say a few things first i’m not an american i am a kuwaiti and i love america and americans and i thank god for them because they are the ones who freed my country from saddam and gave us peace when many other arab countries didn’t do anything for us . i read alot that if muslims dont agree with terrorism why dont they do anything well its just the sad fact that the only thing arabs know how to do is talk and not act there is a common saying that every middle eastern knows and uses to make fun of this fact “omma arabiya wahida that kyan wahid” this saying is heared alot from arabic leaders it basikly means that they will unite all the arab counties and make them one ( ya right ! this was said even before i was born and yet nothing- i for one dont want to be unite with countires that hate me as a kuwaiti) i for one know that islam is a peacfull religion and when some one tells me that it was spread with the sword i simplly say as a shia i believe that if imam ali tolk his rightfull place as the succsesor of the prophet than this would not have happend and about bin ladin he is a terrorist such as all the wahabiya who not only kill christians but kill shia as well and think that they will go to heaven for this . to all who quoted from the quran to support their oppinions i say you will NEVER understand the real islam unless you know good arabic because not every thing in the quran is taken literally and there are ceratin sections that have to be read completly becuase they are not orders to kill or what ever but acually telling a story of what happened becuase at certain points the prophet was orderd to fight in order to protect the new developing religion anyways i know that what i wrote is not going to convince anyone that islam is peacful beacase no one wants to believe that but thats ok in arabic we say ikhtilf araey la yofsid lil wod qadiya which means that disagreement does not spoil friendship. finally i dont think i’m going ti write any thing else cuz my finalls are coming up i gotta study if i want to be i good pharmacist one day :) peace to you all

  131. As far as I am concerned Muslims and the religion of Islam is evil.Nothing but evil comes from it,nothing but evil is preached.

    This survey is not surprising to me in the least.

    Someone tell me why we AMERICANS should adjust our culture to accomadate theirs? In my opinion all Muslims should be rounded up,thrown in concentration camps and left there to rot.

    For American citizens to choose their religion over their country is sickening.YOu people are living in the greatest country ever.

    You people are sick and disgusting.If you have probelms with MY country then get the hell out NOW!

    Go back to your “homeland” and live in your caves.We do not need you here.

    Here me now and here me good,if we get attacked again you can bet your life that its over for muslims living in America.We have had it,totally had it.You have tested our patience and our patience have about run out.

    How dare you people side with the likes of Bin Laden,what the hell are you thinking.You do not deserve to live in this country!

    I mean you people actually believe Iran should have nukes.What in gods name are you thinking,seriously.

    But dont worry Iran will never have their nukes,remember that little country called Israel? The little country of Israel that has been so restained in their dealings with the ragheads to this point.Do you people have any clue what Israel can do to any country in that sand pit you call the middle east? Israle will make sure Iran and their nutjob president never develop the bomb!

    I am sorry,I am not a racist,and have never hated anyone in my life until now.I truly hate muslims.End of story!!!!!!!!1

  132. I guess we all have a right to believe what we see , and respectively, thats human nature. There are people who want to hurt our nation.

    But, imagine you are a muslim reading these comments? Would you like america?

    You talk about muslims taking action to start peace, but you do the exact opposite.

    We, in part, help the terrorists delivering once pro-American muslims to the dark side because we post comments like these.

    imagine the country you loved said this about your religion.

    never thought of that did you?

  133. Do you notice how we (american citizens)(non-muslims) are talking about how muslims only care about killing and war, yet the muslims here talked peacefully to you. EVEN THOUGH YOU DISRESPECTED THEM???! WE talked about war. yet these muslims gathered us here to talk about peace. iam with john

    WE’re no better than the “evil muslims” we talk about, because we ourselves are promoting war,John and John locke are brave enough to admitt that.

    for those of you dont know john locke. he stood for peace

  134. I live in Australia, where we have a long and prosperous, relationship with Muslims in our country. Long in the sense of my life anyway, I am 40. I am a firm believer that our cultures are more similar than they are different and it is only that our eras of progress and stagnation have always been opposed.

    You may question about the racial riots in Sydney, not that long ago, the same thing happened in Melbourne in the early eighties and it wasn’t about race but simply a gang and street related tussle. Those arguements always get out of hand.

  135. I would like to hear anyone’s recommendation of what the American govt should have done in response to the 9-11 attacks, and it would be logical to factor the plane that missed it’s mark as actually striking the Capital bldg or White House, whichever the target.

    I think Muslims are people just like anyone else and most folks will excuse or support people of their own tribe when they do something really stupid rather than just turn them over to the other tribe. So the excuses and the denial come out. I really don’t think the numbers I read hear are really condoning the attrocities. If it was muslim to muslim and annonymous on top of that, folks would blast the extremists in their midst. But we non-muslims are the bad guys. Not so much because we are bad, but because we gather around campfires too many dunes away to be trusted. So sure, some of the muslims like the idea of putting out our fire. Problem is if we non-muslims were gone, muslims couldn’t learn from us. Problem is, if all the muslims were gone, we couldn’t learn from them. And as long as we are shooting at each other, no one can learn. We can only shoot back.

  136. Fact: I have lived in Syria, Oman, Qutar, and Jordan for a minimum of 4 years in each country.
    Fact: Muslims make up the largest group of people “Dying for God”, and welcoming “Martyrdom”.
    Fact: Most Muslims are ingnorrant of the Quran, under educated, lack common sense, and often blame others for their own problems while begging for hand outs.

    Any questions?

  137. yes, people are ignorant and uder educated. BUt what I dont understand is do we have to be Stereotypical to all muslims because I know for a fact 99% of muslims are not evil.

    Iam just saying a lot of muslims live here in America and we’re not attached to a bomb.

    PS suicide is against my religion which is islam

  138. Muslims worship a man who came to power by forcing others to convert or die. He used the sword instead of peaceful teachings and examples. How can anyone believe that what has happened around the world is just a misunderstanding and exploitation of the Muslim religion? Hitler came to power by the same means and look at the destruction and crimes against humanity the world suffered. That example alone speaks volumes since Muslims don’t see anything wrong with what Hitler did to the Jews and even the President of Iran denies that the Holocaust took place. Trust Muslims? Never!

  139. First of all islam was not spread by the sword.
    second muslims are forbidden to ever change someones religion. Matter of fact scholars deny people who are trying to convert because “they are looking for a new religion.” You have to convert because your soul has seen the truth.
    and last but not least: Any muslim who supports HItler will be punished by god because taking another person’s life, regardless Jew or not, is a very great sin. God has said: taking one mans life is like taking the life of the whole community or somthing to that extent( Iam not sure if it was community or country etc…)

  140. Abdella, your first two statements are easily falsifiable by reading the Koran and its associated literature. (Must be quite shocking to Muslims to actually have people reading their “sacred” literature, and realizing what a bunch of violent retards they are, rather than taking the politically correct byline)

  141. Care to prove that?

    You call muslims violent yet we talked to you peacefully while you cursed. And just to add a little point; if you think we’re as bad as you say, why didn’t the title of this website say “Muslim’s for a destroyed America.?”
    I think Christianity is a great religion and I respect it 100%. I wouldn’t discriminate against it because one man or an organization were to do evil things and totally missinterpret the teachings of the bible. Yet you do the same. But don’t worry I wont blame the religion (christianity) or you, I will just blame the hate that fills your heart.

  142. Amazing. This certainly proves that we have muslims who are loyal to the koran. And the comments prove they will NEVER change. Very enlightening.

    btw, islam did have its reformation. It’s called wahabbism.

  143. Defending against the Islam-o-phobia

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

    These immortal words resonate with all three monolithic religions. Our forefathers wrote the declaration of independence to rid us from the tyranny of rulers who suppressed the desire and the will of a nation by the use of overwhelming power and for only one reason: their own riches.

    Knowing he was a condemned man, Moses, armed with a divine mandate, walked to the pharaoh of Egypt and ordered him to set the children of Israel free.

    Christ followed and reiterated the message of peace, justice and equality for all. “Let the one who has no sin cast the first stone.” Jesus said. From his words I understand that we are all equal.

    It was in the darkest of times that the sun of Islam came to rise. Humans were enslaved. People were a commodity that was bought and sold. Little girls were killed at birth only because no one wanted the shame of having a girl. Women had no rights of voting, ownership or inheritance.

    Islam came with a simple message that all humans are created equal. People have god given rights to live in peace, express themselves freely without fear of prejudice or persecution.

    Equal right and responsibilities to all are a sacred institution symbolized by Mohammad’s declaration that punishment for a crime will be carried out even if the perpetrator was his own daughter.

    When a Coptic Christian came to Omar, the second Caliph, to air a grievance against the son of Egypt’s governor who hit the Copt only because the Copt won in horse race over him, Omar wrote to the governor and asked “how can you enslave people when in fact their mothers gave birth to them as free?”. Then Omar ordered the son to be slapped in public by the same Coptic man.

    Islam continued with that same tradition to lead the world. For many centuries Islam was the shining star that lit the path of all humans. People of all religions thrived under Islamic rule.

    Rights, most important of which: human rights, were kept. Peace and security to all were derived from justice for all.

    A trade caravan traveled from one end of the vast Islamic land to the other feared nothing and faced no borders. True free trade indeed!

    Looking at the world today, I feel anguish at the current state of affairs. We, as humans, have collectively drifted away from the basic principles of human rights.

    The rift is widened by self proclaimed “soldiers of god”. Alleging prophecies, they wreak havoc throughout the world.

    It was declared in the Old Testament that “he who takes the life of one human is as if he killed all of humanity and he who saves one is as if he saved all of humanity”.

    We need to rise and challenge the status quo. We need to question the motives of those who are waging wars. We need a hard look at our basics be they our respective religions or the word of our forefathers.

    We need to ask the hard question: if the reason for waging wars is to spread justice, democracy and freedom to the unfortunates oppressed people of the world, then why the blood the daily blood baths? Why do we stand against young democracies who were elected by consensus voting? Why it that we seem to have two lists: one for bad dictators and another for good dictators?

    Most important of questions: why is it that every time the war mongers wage a war the seem to get richer and the rest of us get poorer?.

    By no means I am lecturing on religion or history here as I am the least qualified to do so, however I am offering a simple man’s counter argument to those who claim that Islam is both intolerant and hostile to other faiths. In fact, the opposite will be evident by objectively answering the following question: if is and has historically been hostile and intolerant, then how can the existence of thriving communities of Christians and Jews interwoven within the fabric of many Muslim countries be explained?.

    We were sold a war and the peddlers used the shameless salesmanship tactic of “hook’em, skin’em and fry’em”. They hooked us when they created a new arch enemy embodied in Muslims. Using fear tactics, they coerced a nation into believing a war was needed to defeat the forces of “evil” around the world.

  144. You are 100% right Bilal. And the funny thing is the Quran, Tora, And BIble are very similar. For example Bilal you stated that in the Torah it says “he who takes the life of one human is as if he killed all of humanity and he who saves one is as if he saved all of humanity”. Those words, as you wrote them exactly, are in the sacred Quran, and i wouldn’t be surprised if they were in the Bible too!

  145. [...] Posted by cnredd US citizens…right here in the states…I feel like crying… Muslims For A Safe America Survey Muslims For A Safe America conducted a survey at the Islamic Society of North America’s 43rd [...]

  146. Wow!! what a mess up world we live in.

    You know is funny how muslims hate this country so much and blame it for their problems, wether its for the palestine cause or the iraq war. The answers from this survey, makes me terrified at Islam. if muslims dislike this country so much why the hell do they live in it or travel distances to live here? If islam is a peaceful religion, why do i see everyday muslims against muslims killings in Iraq? why do muslims like a a religion that beats them or kills them for having other views? why is it so hard for a muslim country to embrace other religions in their society? u know the world hate us right, why are we so kind to the world? why does my government gives away my money to the palestinian? when they are chanting for the death of my fellow citizens. I think we should be like the romans and slaughter those who profane us. muslims countries are what they are an old relic reminance of their themselves. i really hope that iran makes those nukes and uses them who cares on whom, just gives us the chance. muslims are an ignorant race that love violence. thats why there will never a superpower muslim nation. And the world would always be rule by the infidel wether they like it or not.

  147. You European Americans are so pathetic. You sit by and commit national suicide. Just as we will vote ourselves into power in Europe (including Russia) in another generation, we will immigrate here and breed like rats until we do the same to you. We already have one in congress and that seed will blossum until Allah rules.

  148. Here is my take on it. As an American Muslim I am quite tired of people who use the excuse “maybe they weren’t/aren’t real Muslims.” Only Allah (SWT) can know the answer to that; all we can go on are their statements.

    I will point out one thing; I run into a lot of Muslims who spend too much of their time hanging out with lunatic left wing conspiracy theorists who encourage unhealthy – and unIslamic – attitudes and beliefs. No one seems to get upset when the rich, white, and decidedly non-Muslim woman who founded and funded Code Pink blathers on about how her ambition is to increase “anti-Americanism” worldwide. Most American people recognize she’s a spoiled little rich girl who hates White men because Daddy didn’t give her everything she wanted. Unfortunately, many Muslims think that people like her are mainstream and admirable, and people who condemn the US appeal strongly to the nafs of other people who may feel awkward living in a society where most people are very different than the folks in their family.

    And so they fall for all the nonsensical conspiracy theories that suggest the US, Israel, or whomever was responsible for the various attacks worldwide and choose to wilfully ignore it when people who state that they are Muslims take responsibility for these same attacks.

    And, BTW, get over tarring us all with the same brush and ignoring that there are lots of fruitcake non-Muslims out there. I can walk down any street in SF and find non-Muslims who will agree with using violence against the US, and believe in any nutty conspiracy theory you can conjure up. Heck, my own husband was nearly blown up in the 1960s at the U of M by some whacko American non-Muslim left wing deranged terrorists. Where I used to work in Seattle was destroyed by left wing paranoid eco-whackos who suffered from the delusion that “Urban Horticulture” had something to do with evil genetic modifications that would no doubt create the Blob that ate Vashon Island. Oh, and a nice, White, leftist beat a cop senseless during an SF “Peace Demonstration.”

  149. A curiuos student once April 29, 2007 at 11:20 pm Reply

    hello to everyone

    How has the war on terrorism (since 9/11) changed the way North Americans understands Islam?

  150. A concerned student and US citizen April 30, 2007 at 12:50 pm Reply

    What bothers me more than the stats in the survey ever could is the terrible, ignorant, and racist comments of my fellow Americans. I don’t know how many times it can be reiterated that this is NOT a scientific survey and not representative of the entire American-Muslim population. So figures like a mobile army of 60,000 killers of American citizens are inaccurate and absolutley wrong.

    As far as nonsensical quoting of the Qu’ran, you can just as easily take basically the entire book of Leviticus and hold things against Christianity for which have no basis or foundation in modern practice. Or take for example Westboro Baptist Church!!! they have a quote for every single one of their hateful beliefs in the bible. It is because they provide no context and apply an extremely old code to a modern world in which it has no basis.

    The problem with the entire situation is this. We as Americans and Westerners, confuse cultural practices and habits formed by ARAB nations to be the goals and ideals of the Islamic faith. The seeming “oppression” of women could be more attributed to the masculine culture of Arab countries than the laws of the Qu’ran, which came as a liberating force for women a thte time of the prophet Muhammad.

    In conclusion, I wish that everyone could take a higher road, a more worldly view, and realize that we are all connected by a belief in a higher god and by religions that promote love of one’s neighbors. We cannot adhere entirely to the words of the Bible or the Qu’ran in this modern world. Nor can we indulge in our own human desires and wants to form our own version of a faith set forth by a being far more powerful than us.

    Peace be with you,

    Matt

  151. Why are so many surveyed people in favor of Iran developing nuclear weapons? I can’t see any justification for that:(

  152. Abu Noor al-Irlandee May 5, 2007 at 1:31 pm Reply

    Texmom,

    Perhaps they believe that Iran having a nuclear weapon would prevent the U.S. from invading it as the U.S. did with Iraq.

    It is also possible that they believe that a Muslim nation with such a weapon in the region could act as a counterbalance to Israel having such a weapon.

    So I think its a matter of some people (as you can see not all) believing in the idea that having strength is a good idea to actually prevent war. I don’t think anyone is in favor of Iran (or anyone else) actually using a nuclear weapon.

    God knows best.

  153. It’s said that only 22% of Americans have an unfavorable view of Muslims.

    I don’t believe this at all I suggest that it is in the top 90% of Americans that have an unfavorable view of Muslims. And if you are living ‘away’ from major cites it’s even higher.

    The media is trying to do its thing across the USA and I do not think its working.

    Every so often you will see a site as this only thing not many are going to see it right away but I notice that’s changing and the internet is now becoming the very thing that Ben Franklin wanted of the free press.

    And the media hates that.

    There is a group going around telling Americans to stop talking polls from the phone or anywhere else. This will leave an absence of info that the media and insiders will not be able to counter punch the events going on today.

    I was doing this since I was a kid any way (I am from Jersey USA we don’t tell any body any thing) and the poll people just call begging me to state something so they can twist it their way. I always hang up not letting them know how I am thinking or giving my race, etc. I bet a lot of people are doing it more and more these days with all the fear the media feeds out, they been shooting themselves in the foot like forever.

    Why should we give them bullets only to have them fire it back at us?

    The recent FBI and NSA figures on just how many Islamic Fundamentalists world wide that want to kill us is near 18-25% of their total population. The other 75% or so just hates the United States and its people, and plan not to do anything at all in aiding the War on Terror.

    Ok that’s about 1.2 billion muslin in the world so you got 200 million and better warriors ready to blown themselves up for Islam and the happy hunting ground.

    These figures just came out from our Intel, nation wide that’s quite an army. Remember now we here in the USA have only a 270 million population that’s men woman and children combine. Now the Jews fine this as a positive as they are the main ones in the target hairs. Only thing is that Europe reading on the Jews is near the level as it was during WW2 and that’s not good for Jews. Here in the United States poll readings are starting to follow the same course of thinking and Jews/Arab thing has been becoming very unfixable to most Americans in general. Tells me that we are starting to distance ourselves away from the Middle East as we did from Germany, Japan and other wartime ‘theaters of war over our history.

    That’s not a good sign for the Middle East no matter where you live over their and what you are.

    Bomb shelters for sale anyone?

    Opps, I forgot the ones we do know about them 8-10 million illegal people well there no help at all any way but from cutting your grass and such, they could care less one way or the other.

    This is going to be a major problem worldwide for many decades to come, just as it was in the early days of the Crusades. Doesn’t matter what gender runs things whose party is in or just how much money you have in the bank. Watch for the big tidal wave coming it just hit the beach and most are still talking if the 911 thing was the real deal.

  154. This is ridiculous. If you supported terrorism against the US would you tell ANYONE? No. And also, if such a large percentage of people would tell the police about an attack they overheard, why did 911 happen? and if they did tell someone and they didn’t listen, why were they not proactive and take matters into their own hands. No, not all Muslims are terrorists, but every single one has the power to infiltrate terrorist networks on some level and destroy them. The fact that they don’t is telling of where their morals lie. The day I hear about a group of Muslims bombing the houses of a terrorist that attends their mosque, is the day I change my position. The reality of that is, it will never happen, because they are not TRULY against the proliferation of radical Islam. I beg you… Prove me wrong.

  155. You doesnt have to be a rocketscientist to realize that the Koran is very very outdated, And doesnt really work in a modern society. When is The Koran 2.0 arriving ?

  156. well for the claims that the Koran are old outdated i say look at the bible nothing in it is for “Modern times”… Something to think about George Washington “Father of United States” did not own a Bible he read the Koran.. so i guess hes a Muslim too…
    people make war not the books or beliefs…

  157. christians in canada do not blame muslims

    for the attacks

    america knew dam right well that it was going to happen

    http://www.infowars.com

    http://www.prisonplanet.com

    http://www.henrymakow.com

    GOD IS LOVE

  158. It’s time to stop all muslims from immigrating to the USA and western countries. I’m really sorry to the few muslims that would hold America, or Britian or wherever first in your hearts and that are good, decent people. We can’t take the risk for a couple of good people.
    I find it especially interesting that many of you don’t seem to even comprehend why we westerners are scared of you and why you should be the ones targeted for suspicion at the airport. I’m sick of being held up and sick of seeing little old white ladies getting body searched, come on we all know they aren’t the ones that are going to hijack the plane. Why are muslims offended when these types of surveys show that even western muslims do not think the way other western people think regarding terror and violence?

  159. I’m neither muslim nor American and all the muslims I personally know are secular so although I’ve taken a course on Islam in college I don’t really have much personal experience on this issue. However from what I’ve seen on the whitewashed liberal media in United States it seems that the religious establishment of western “mainstream” muslim communities are mostly dominated by reactionary misogynist liars (I can only imagine the reports on conservative media to be even worse), and it’s also supported by the result of this survey, however, there are also some dissatified and outspoken liberal muslims in north America and Europe who want changes. I think us non-muslims should support those reform-minded Islamic leaders as allies and who knows, maybe in a generation or two we can see a vast cultural change that will liberate millions of people.

  160. [...] Society of North America’s convention held in Chicago at the beginning of September. In their own words, here is the purpose and the scope of this [...]


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